Formal education: option or obligation?

[DaleC]

At the risk of poster weariness (which I am well aware of) I thought I would start yet another thread in an attempt to clarify an issue that repeatedly arises in this forum and often clouds debate by focusing on the "how" instead of the "what".

In a number of recent threads (on a variety of topics related to divers advancing their knowledge or skill level) there has been an undercurrent argument regarding the way in which today's diver should progress.

This argument often revolves around two learning pathways: formal/structured education and other/unstructured education models such as (though not exclusively) self study and mentoring.

rather than post my personal views in the OP I'll just ask the simple question that I think cuts to the quick of the debate:

In your opinion; Is formal education in regards to today's diving an obligation or an option?

Vote and discuss if you wish.

[Dirty-Dog]

Mentoring/apprenticeship is an excellent way to gain knowledge. Formal education is only necessary because of the litigenous society we live in.

[VooDooGasMan]

Always has been the option and always will be, many Instructors that took along time to become good at diving and progress are the ones that think people can not progress fast. some can and some can't, for the ones that can will always self study ask ?'s and do. the ones that are not will need the extra guidance to be able to progress.

[ScubaSteve]

I am the first and only person that has thus far voted Obligation.......I personally am of the belief that there are too many people willing to shortcut the system. You don't know what you don't know. How is someone (a new diver) supposed to know who is a good mentor? How are they to know they are being mentored in safe diving practices? If danger is taught to you as safe, then you know no better.

The formal education system is not perfect but at least you know that what is being taught (if being taught properly) should be safe based on everything that is known today. If in question a person can also compare different agencies to see if everybody else teaches the same/similar. You can always find a bad seed but at least this way it should be safe the believe that most are weeded out thus improving your chances at a good safe education.

People shortcut the systems today and would continue to do so. Sadly, they are often the subjects of threads in the A&I forum here on ScubaBoard.

Always has been the option and always will be, many Instructors that took along time to become good at diving and progress are the ones that think people can not progress fast. some can and some can't, for the ones that can will always self study ask ?'s and do. the ones that are not will need the extra guidance to be able to progress.

I agree with what you have said here but do not think that you are saying Obligated formal training is not required. Or are you? There is nothing wrong with refining skills through experience and always asking questions. Taking a jaunt to the Doria with your OW teacher mentor because they answered some questions and did some dives with you......that could cause some issues.

[boulderjohn]

I did not vote because the poll is, IMO, overly simplistic and creates a false dichotomy.

Everyone who has read these posts in endless threads over the years knows the argument well. It works like this.

1. Formal scuba instruction is really crappy and turns out divers who don't know what they are doing. These divers are all around us.

2. If you want to learn something, go to one of those divers and ask him or her to mentor you. As soon as you make that request, these crappy divers turn into excellent divers who are much more skilled and knowledgeable than certified instructors. You are thus assured that any of these divers who are not instructors will provide excellent advice.

3. Occasionally these mentors go on to get instructor certification. At that point, they become incompetent morons. So if you want someone to mentor you, be sure to get all that mentoring done before that person makes the mistake of getting professional certification.

[TSandM]

I think formal education can be of amazing value. I also think that I could (I wouldn't, but that's a different story) take an intelligent and confident person and teach them to dive, or mentor them into doubles, or show them how to shoot a bag, or how to run line. The job I did might not be as thorough, and worse, I might not be aware of all the ways in which things could go wrong, or what to do about them if they did. But assuming an apt pupil, I could pass along a lot of what I know.

I know a case in point. One of my frequent dive buddies got his OW (and may have done some mainstream classes after that -- I'm not sure). But he made the transition to DIR-style diving by diving with DIR divers. He taught himself buoyancy control and trim, learned to shoot bags from people who HAD taken classes, and generally learned all the things I paid people a lot of money to teach me, by absorbing them from people who already had the knowledge. He's indiscernible from a formally-trained diver.

The more complex the diving you are talking about, and the higher the risks, the more I think GOOD instruction is very, very greatly to be preferred. I would never, for example, suggest that someone learn to cave dive from a buddy (although I suspect there are people out there who could mentor someone into a pretty good cave diver). There, the things you don't know can kill you quickly, and an instructor takes on a huge burden of responsibility. I'm not sure the average "mentor" thinks through all the possible things that could go wrong, or how he would respond to them if they did.

So, although the poll is too cut and dried for my taste, I voted that formal education is an option. EDUCATION is an obligation, and too many people taking formal classes aren't geting any of it, whereas some people NOT taking formal classes are getting quite a bit.

[dbulmer]

To DaleC

Personally I refuse to accept the options you put foward are mutually exclusive.

I agree with Bob (NWG) - formal education teaches the basic skill and provides a contextual reference. Mentoring provides the opportunity to apply the learning outside a classroom/confined water setting. Both have value and as the capabilities of the diver advance the mixture becomes all the more important to cement the learning.

[Akimbo]

Being a literal kind’a guy; or course it is an option unless maybe somebody’s holding a gun to your head.

Formal education in diving can be a good option or really mediocre. Someone that is a poor swimmer and easily panics that takes back-to-back courses and only logs course dives can get pocket full of C-cards, look pretty impressive on paper, and be a complete hazard to themselves and others. You can also be unlucky and have a bad instructor or one you simply can’t relate to.

We all know that a motivated person who is a decent swimmer with a good science background can become a great diver through self-study… unless anyone thinks that Jacques Cousteau and friends weren’t great divers. There is a huge gulf between these two extremes and the correct answer lies in between and is highly variable.

Let’s face it; virtually everyone is on Scubaboard as a form of self-study. Every time we reply to a question it subtly expands our understanding in addition to helping diving comrades. Reading and debating replies expands and compliments — and sometime corrects us. People who think that they don’t need to learn any more, can only learn from formal training, or know everything are the divers to fear.

[awap]

I am looking forward to the day when scuba certifications require just a test of knowledge, skills, and abilities. Training should be separated and possibly independent.

[DevonDiver]

Formal or informal education: Same thing, probably the same people to provide. In one case you pay money, in the other you don't.

Mentor that doesn't want money to provide training is either your friend, or not qualified to teach.

Not qualified to teach? That can mean everything, or it can mean nothing. Either way, you need to know what it means before you can understand the value of the education you are receiving.