Formal education: option or obligation?

[MXGratefulDiver]

It depends on the diver, really ... but one should not consider this an "either/or" set of choices. For most people, diving instruction teaches you how and what to learn ... and the learning takes place by diving. Mentors are and always will be a major component of the learning process ... but it's important to find a mentor who can teach you responsibly. Choosing the wrong mentor can either result in chronic bad habits or a serious case of dead ... because there are plenty of divers out there who subscribe to the "balls of steel" school of learning who will happily take you places you have no business being.

Instructors won't (usually) do that.

The biggest problem with formal instruction is that it's an artificial environment. It has to be, because diving instruction is a structured curriculum ... with specific objectives ... and the nature of diving is generally unstructured and unpredictable. Therefore scuba instruction cannot train you specific responses to all conceivable things that you will need training for. What training attempts to do is provide you a set of tools and teach you their basic functions. Mentors teach you the "craft" of using those tools through repeated application. These are very distinct levels of learning ... and both are important.

Yes, it is true that there are divers out there who are completely capable of learning to become skilled divers without any formal training at all ... but they are few and far between. One cannot apply the needs, goals, and aptitude of one diver to another ... we're all different. A good instructor knows how to recognize those differences and apply training in a way that best suits those attributes to the individual diver ... which is what makes the "checklist" approach to dive instruction so inappropriate so often, and why so many times someone will come out of a class lamenting that they didn't learn anythinig. It is also why you will often hear someone say "it's not the agency that matters, it's the instructor".

So ... to answer the question more directly ... for a small minority, formal instruction could be optional (ignoring the necessity of a c-card) ... but for a significant majority, formal instruction is necessary. But even for that significant majority, formal instruction cannot replace the value of a good mentor ... one who can guide you through the real learning that occurs through practical applcation.

FWIW - I have taken over 30 different scuba classes over the past 11 years, and learned a great deal from them. But the person who taught me the most about diving is not a scuba instructor ... he's just a very skilled diver who has a lot of patience and a great way of explaining things. The knowledge he shared with me came over the course of well over 100 dives.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DaleC]

I feel some may be having trouble understanding the poll question. It is not whether formal education is necessary, a good idea or valuable - it is whether it is obligatory ie: if you want to learn something you are obliged to do so via formal education. If you select obligatory you agree. If you select optional you believe that one is able to learn via a variety of models such as formal, informal, mentoring self study etc...

It's really just a poll regarding how one approaches the act of learning. Are you obliged to seek formal education or is it one of several options available to you?

Not focusing on any imagined sinister intentions, I can see in threads that some people are pretty comfortable learning in an unstructured environment and some become quite uncomfortable if the learning is not contained within a formal context. I see these biases often becoming the focus of the discussion instead of the actual subject ie: arguing about how to learn something instead of the something to be learned. It's a repetitive loop that tangles many discussions in the advanced diving forum with many of us (I'll include myself) feeling the need to become the "thought police" instead of allowing people to think for themselves. From my POV I feel I sometimes have to defend the rights or validity of others to learn in their own way and I suspect some other posters POV is that they need to protect the imagined newbie from impending disaster through the misuse of information.

My thought in starting this thread was to allow discussion on that particular point, in its own place, with some hope of resolution or at least a better understanding, so that the back and forth sniping might be diminished in other threads. This is completely self serving on my part as I actually enjoy those other discussions (not for the sniping) and gain a lot of knowledge from reading about different diving techniques - even if I myself, might not employ them.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

IF there was a both option that is what I'd pick. I teach formally and, with certain less experienced people who are also friends, informally. they get the same knowledge but with the latter I can pick and choose what specific information they need. With paying students I do this as well but it's not through official courses. Rather with workshops that I have developed and while there are guidelines (written by me) for what is covered they are extremely flexible based on the students interests, skill level, and ability. I have written two "official" courses, participated in the wiritng of another, and have right now 5 workshops that I can offer. I have a drysuit skills, Weighting, Buoyancy and Trim, basic/advanced skills, Buddy Skills, and dive planning. Working on an intro to doubles/stage use.

My agency has no form of peak buoyancy class. We expect that to be taken care of in the OW class. But I have the workshop covering weighting, buoyancy and trim that can be taught in the pool, OW , or a combination of both depending on the students needs. I've done all of them. Priced accordingly and they can take from three hours to a weekend depending on what is required. Is it formal instruction? I'd say so but the structure is not set by someone 1000 miles away who has never seen my student. The course structure is determined by the student. They are in control of what gets taught, how, when, etc.

I have seen too many instances of formal structured training not working. Instructors who go by the book when the student needs something else. But due to insurance, agency rules, or the instructor just not being able to see the problem and go outside the box to address it, the student loses out. Formal is ok for some. Flexible and sometimes informal works as well. For some it works much better.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Before I was an instructor and while in college, I taught my buddy to dive in Maine. No books, no reading, no pool, just learned to scuba dive by following my directions. He did pretty well and was night diving with me in a few weeks. However, I first taught him to freedive and I felt pretty confident if he could comfortably freedive to 30, he could scuba to 35 feet (using all borrowed gear).

It was funny, he went away to Calif. and took a really good (NAUI) course (this was 1980) and when he came back a year later, he was kinda up set about all the things I never taught him.. I explained that I had taught him everything he needed (to dive 35 feet).

 

[Akimbo]

… It was funny, he went away to Calif. and took a really good (NAUI) course (this was 1980) and when he came back a year later, he was kinda up set about all the things I never taught him.. I explained that I had taught him everything he needed (to dive 35 feet)…

No multi-tissue theory, no gas management, no oxygen toxicity lecture?! My god, I bet he couldn’t even partial pressure blend his Nitrox. Off with your head!

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I learn from every dive- even those I'm leading or teaching dives. I hope that is true of all of us. I learn from talking to other divers or reading their posts here. Yet some aspects of diving are mandatory formal class enterprises. These include the basic open water diver class, the nitrox course, and a rebreather class. Each is necessary to get a credential to qualify you to do something you can't, or sure shouldn't do, without such a credential. It is also true for any professional level certification course: DM, instructor, Course director. The formal courses are as close as we can get to establishing minimal requirement levels for certain credentials, and they are necessary and required. However, you don't have to take a navigation class to learn to be a good navigator, but it is an option. So too for cave diving, ice diving, dry suit, and many other specialties. But formal classes offer additional learning and are an option. All formal classes are only as good as the instructor who presents them, and the same is true of instruction from an experienced diver, or mentor. If they know their stuff and can convey it effectively, evaluate your performance critically, and make corrections properly, then they can teach effectively too. I think the criticism of many formal classes is that they do not always live up to be what the student expects, particularly as to outcomes. However, that may be attributable to the teacher, the materials , and/or the student's own investment in developing the skill or competence the class is designed to develop. Not all mentors or instructors are equal. Nor do most specialty classes make you competent in the area taught. Skills, decision making, and knowledge all need to be practiced, developed and honed, and that happens AFTER the class is done. Never stop learning. Serious divers, competent and safe divers, learn from every dive.
DivemasterDennis

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Before I was an instructor and while in college, I taught my buddy to dive in Maine. No books, no reading, no pool, just learned to scuba dive by following my directions. He did pretty well and was night diving with me in a few weeks. However, I first taught him to freedive and I felt pretty confident if he could comfortably freedive to 30, he could scuba to 35 feet (using all borrowed gear).

It was funny, he went away to Calif. and took a really good (NAUI) course (this was 1980) and when he came back a year later, he was kinda up set about all the things I never taught him.. I explained that I had taught him everything he needed (to dive 35 feet).

My very first scuba dive ... years before I ever took a scuba lesson ... was pretty much like that. I was into racing sailboats at the time and there was a guy in our crew who was a scuba diver. He promised to teach me "everything I needed to know". So on a beautiful summer day we headed down into a cove on Lake Winnapesauki in New Hampshire, and he took me down to about 15 feet ... where I spent a happy 20 minutes terrorizing the fish.

It wasn't until 11 years later ... when I enrolled in a YMCA scuba class ... that I found out he'd neglected to mention a couple of important things ... like how to clear my ears (no wonder they hurt) and ... "never hold your breath" ... :shocked2:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[wtcreaux]

I can only relate to what I know.

My earliest background is as firefighter. I started as a volunteer, doing the "follow me" routine. Then I went paid, to Fire Academy, where I learned firefighting was ALOT more than putting "wet stuff on the red stuff". I learned about the physics of pumping water (pressure, friction loss, etc), about the dynamics of different fires (structural, car, industrial, chemical, etc). It was then that I realized all the BS I had learned before and, as someone else has already noted, took me awhile to unlearn. A fire ground is VERY unforgiving, not many chances for second-chance. Now, I apply the basic KNOWLEDGE in performing the SKILLS needed to succesfully extinguish with zero loss of life (hopefully) and minimum loss of property.

I am also a NRA firearms instructor, having taught world-wide. I have taught active/retired military/law enforcement, competition shooters, and individual folks. I am still amazed at the number of BASIC skills folks don't have (safe handling). I have been told numerous times by same military/law enforcement "No one's ever told us that before"

Extrapolating to diving, I think "formal" instruction (i.e. physics, safety, nomenclature) should GENERALLY be required. Diving without understanding the basic laws of physics and safety is a simple game of Russian roulette. I am NOT saying that EVERY instructor will deliver a quality program but the teaching affiliate's basic knowledge and skills will be presented.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I feel some may be having trouble understanding the poll question.

This is definitely the case. I took it to be either/or and all or nothing. I believe that some people are capable of mentoring a diver and helping them expand their knowledge but I still believe that we need to be careful of just who we put in that mentor role. It would be a shame to start out a safe diver and end up a dangerous stroke because you followed the wrong person. I still believe that certification is eventually required but have no issue with people growing with other divers.

 

[Akimbo]

A dozen or so comments in this thread sparked my curiosity: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/advanced-scuba-discussions/403233-learned-wrong.html#post6129894

In an attempt not to hijack this thread, maybe you could chime in there describing what things have you learned that were wrong.