Formal education: option or obligation?

[Jax]

... I feel I sometimes have to defend the rights or validity of others to learn in their own way and I suspect some other posters POV is that they need to protect the imagined newbie from impending disaster through the misuse of information.

Here, here! Well-said, sir!

This is a real weakness of those who opine on this board. Only TSandM has consistently answered the question first,, and then asked about the author's reason. everyone else jumps on the "you are gonna die" or the "you don't have the experience to ask this" bandwagons.


Tapatalk by Droid

 

[DaleC]

Steve, I am certainly learning something here that's for sure. I really felt the question was straight forward but some of the responses clearly indicate it was not. I wonder if this has to do with the wording or with the way people view internet discussions in general?
Adversarial vs collaborative
I often can see validity in both sides of a discussion and usually try to focus on the information I am seeking rather than some sort of over all acceptance or rejection of the POV of the proponents. I'm a vintage equipment diver but I don't think things we're always "better in the old days". I'm not a DIR diver but I like much of what I see in that regime. I am what one would refer to as a recreational diver but I'm interested in the thinking behind some technical practices.
I really don't have a side to defend except that I think rejecting the option of unstructured learning lessens the overall potential for learning and is really an artificial construct.

 

[Bob DBF]

DaleC, just take up herding cats 'cause it's easier than getting a reasonable discussion on the internet.

Like you, I will take any good diving practice from anywhere, we are trying to survive underwater. Somehow the "my agency, techniques, religion, is better than yours" takes the fun out of exchanging ideas.

Keep it up anyway, I enjoy your perspective.


Bob
---------------------------------
religion,

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Yanno ... I just went back and read the replies and I don't see a single adversarial response. So I'm not sure what the intent of the previous two responses was.

To my concern, the poll question was vaguely worded and way too broad to provide a meaningful response ... which is why I posted a reply rather than make a selection in the poll. I thought that perhaps it was intentionally vague ... to stimulate a broader range of ideas and responses. Now I'm not sure what the intent was.

Based on Dale's explanation, I'd say the question's a no-brainer. The only obligation to formal training resides in the necessity for a c-card. If you own a compressor and dive from shore, there's no obligation whatsoever ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fdog]

Absolutely, a fairly competent diver can learn a lot from informal mentoring and prolific self study.

As soon as they leave their "home turf", though, they will not be able to dive to the extent of their skills. Hence, the state of diving today makes "formal training an obligation".


All the best, James

 

[DaleC]

Bob the adversarial comment wasn't directed to this thread, I'm finding the answers quite interesting if anything. I was referring to the way many other threads deteriorate.

James, what does that mean? If I leave my "home turf" can't I learn from others in an unstructured environment as well if I choose or must I learn through formal channels only? I'm interested in your response because I think it comes closest yet to addressing one end of the spectrum (perhaps?).

Regards

 

[Scuba_Noob]

Isn't at least having a standard minimum (regardless of its inadequacies) better than taking a chance with an informal education and risking being taught completely wrong? Though you can get taught inadequately/wrongly in formal training, I'm under the impression that it's more likely in informal training.

 

[fdog]

A competent, bright diver can pick up a lot of fine-tuned skills from their community. They can also learn a lot from textbooks, references and the like. Thus, progressing into areas that would normally considered the territory of formal education.

Like Nitrox. Or Deco. Or whatever.

Inside that home community, getting fills and equipment, and going dives is a no brainer, because everyone in the community knows this diver and respects them.




...As soon as this diver goes to, say, Bonaire, and wants to dive the Windjammer with their measley little OW card, it's a brick wall. (let alone dive Nitrox!) For a plethora of reasons, today's diving is set up around an examination of skills via "formal training". Which makes it an obligation, not an option.

This is not to say this diver can't move to a new location, and eventually get references and bonafides from their prior dive community. This would eventually let them return to their prior elevated level of diving, and method of gaining skills, albiet slooooowwly and as a PITA. The same could be done for trips too, I suppose, but again it would be a flail festival.


In today's world, it's a neccesity, which makes it an obligation. Not an option.




All the best, James

 

[DaleC]

Thank you James. If I understand you correctly you are saying it's an obligation due to external factors but not primarily from any intrinsic need (not wanting to put words in your mouth). If that's the case then I agree, though I see this as a barrier to access more than to learning. Good point though.

Scuba noob, what do you base your impression on? Feeling or fact. I'm thinking of those threads I've seen in the A&I sub forum wherein new divers have died during formal training. Can you link to a thread where someone has died from completely wrong informal education? I'm sure someone, somewhere, can but I'm interested in how you developed your impression.

 

[waterpirate]

I agree with James 100%. What is done in your own backyard with your peers melts away when you show up at fill express and request 18/45 and some deco gas for tommorows dive whilst presenting your nitrox card!!!OMG

It boils down to you need universally recognised credentials to operate outside your own back yard.
Eric