DSS wing - not a donut - discuss

Hi all,

So, I am pretty much ready to take the BP/W plunge. In fact, I am basically ready to buy the DSS single tank rig complete. But, as is often the case, I have a few reservations.

First, what I think I like about the DSS rig:

1 - Weight plates (I dive cold and need a lot of weight). The weight plates seem like a great design.
2 - Wing with outer tough shell layer.
3 - No STA needed.
4 - The favorable responses here and elsewhere and the simplicity of using a "whole system" that works together well.

And my only reservation:

1 - The DSS wing is a horseshoe and not a donut.

In light of my only reservation, I have been considering an Oxycheq Signature or a Halcyon Eclipse. I really like what I have read about the DSS plate. I would like an adjustable (non-Hog) harness, and the DSS pro-fit seems right on. Basically, I would order a DSS single tank rig tomorrow if the wing were a donut, or if I could convince myself that the DSS wing would perform just as well as a Pioneer, Eclipse or Oxycheq Signature 30.

So, there it is. What would you do? Get a DSS plate/harness and an Oxycheq wing? Or a full DSS rig? Or a Hammerhead plate with Oxycheq wing?

Is the donut shaped wing the only way to go, or is the DSS horseshoe wing just as good as the other single-tank wings?

Thanks for any input.

Gregg

Humuhumunukunukuapua'a:

And my only reservation:

1 - The DSS wing is a horseshoe and not a donut.

...

So, there it is. What would you do? Get a DSS plate/harness and an Oxycheq wing? Or a full DSS rig? Or a Hammerhead plate with Oxycheq wing?

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I had the same pros and cons listed for a single tank config. I liked everything about the rig with the exceptin of the wing. And while I really prefer to support companies that seem to be as available as Tobin is here, I just couldn't pull the trigger on the purchase. Due to the price difference once the rig is broken up, I went with the Hammerhead plate and Oxycheq Signature wing.

Humuhumunukunukuapua'a:

Basically, I would order a DSS single tank rig tomorrow if the wing were a donut, or if I could convince myself that the DSS wing would perform just as well as a Pioneer, Eclipse or Oxycheq Signature 30.

Click to expand...

Two questions:

What do you percieve the benefits of a donut over a horseshoe are?

Are you aware of any current users of our wings that report any problems with venting, trim or anything else?


Tobin

I had that hangup to. I ended up going ahead and ordering the DSS wing, and have loved it ever since. No problem with it not being a donut.

Humuhumunukunukuapua'a:

So, there it is. What would you do? Get a DSS plate/harness and an Oxycheq wing? Or a full DSS rig? Or a Hammerhead plate with Oxycheq wing?

Click to expand...

Humuhumunukunukuapua'a:

Is the donut shaped wing the only way to go, or is the DSS horseshoe wing just as good as the other single-tank wings?

Thanks for any input.

Gregg

Click to expand...

I sure wouldn't worry about the horseshoe wing. One of my single wings is a horseshoe and it works great... in fact there is at least one advantage to this design. It can help balance out a cannister light, pony, or whatever you have that might make you want to roll.

And... what do you imagine most double wings are? Yep... horseshoe. If you are considering Tobin's rig, then I'd say go for it. I can't imagine that you would be disappointed.

You might want to think about an STA, though.

Question: How the heck do you remember that user name when you need to type it in?

Why do you suppose doubles wings are moving toward donut shape.

Stephen Ash:

You might want to think about an STA, though.

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With a DSS plate and wing why would you need a STA?

Tobin

jagfish:

Why do you suppose doubles wings are moving toward donut shape.

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A few reasons:

1) The leading reason is marketing, all those single donut wing users who are completely convinced donuts are the "only way" who now might be considering doubles. Consider the countless double tank divers currently making demanding dives, using good technique, while diving doubles using horeshoe wings. I have designed and do currently produce a "donut" for doubles, the Torus. I have always stated my opinion that donut doubles wings offer only slight benefits over conventional horseshoe designs.

2) ReBreathers. Most RB's tend to be tail heavy, the O2 and Dil bottles are inverted, and often there is a brass manifold mounted low. Having some volume at the low end can help a RB diver acheive better trim.

3) Volume in a narrower overall package. Doubles wings usually need to provide more total lift, but like all wings the maximum lift is rarely used underwater. Max inflation is used at the surface, or maybe in the event of a Dry Suit failure. By locating some of volume under the tail end of the tanks the side "pontoons" can be somewhat narrower. This results in slightly lower drag wing in normal use.

One must remember how any wing works, and where the gas is in the wing when the diver is horizontal. Underwater wings seldom are filled more than about 25%. This air is distributed in two bubbles along side the tank, and in a properly designed narrow profile wing, through the top arc. There is absolutely no gas in the lower connection of the wing, i.e. the bottom of the donut. Why? because the air would have to travel downhill to get under the bottom of the tanks.

If you want gas to travel from one side of the wing to the other through the bottom connection one must first go "butt up". Other wise the air simply travels throught the top arc of the wing, donut or horseshoe.

Maybe if the laws of physics can be suspended gas will magically travel from the right side bubble, down under the tanks and up to the left side OPV............


Regards,



Tobin

cool_hardware52:

Two questions:

What do you percieve the benefits of a donut over a horseshoe are?

Are you aware of any current users of our wings that report any problems with venting, trim or anything else?


Tobin

Click to expand...

Good point. I should have explained my perspective on these issues in my original post.

1 - The benfits to a donut-shaped bladder that I perceive, based solely on what I have read, and my own experience in a back inflate BCD with a horseshoe-style bladder, are that air tends to migrate more easily from one side of the bladder to the other, that the rear dump can more effectively dump air from the entire bladder in a donut shaped bladder.

I have never heard/read about benefits of horseshoe over donut (lots of folks say donut is 'the way'). But I have read a lot about the DSS wing in particular being just as good as any donut shaped wing available (Pioneer, Eclipse, Oxycheq). Is there something exceptionally good about the DSS wing that makes it as good as the popular donut wings?

2 - No. I have never read about a single issue from a user of a DSS wing in regards to wing venting, trim or anything else. The positive reviews I have read about the entire DSS system are what make that system attractive to me. It sounds great!

The only reason I ask is that I have read in a number of places, without DSS wings being introduced to the discussion, that donut wings are "the only way" for singles. Yet, when the best singles wings are discussed, DSS wings are inevitably in the top running. Is there something exceptional about the DSS wing that makes it perform as well as the donuts? Or is the advantage of a donut wing overrated?

Thanks very much for all of your perspectives.