Am I missing something? - WWW vs LDS

aparootsa · Jul 12, 2007

I posted this on SBtoo, but wanted to follow up...
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So I went in yesterday to my LDS asking about wetsuits, fully intent on trying a couple on, seeing what they had to say about them, and buying one. Now, I've recently been certed by this dive shop, got a new mask, fins and snorkel (my old ones were in need of retirement) from them as well as a few other things... so I've dropped a good amount of cash there.

In the course of him showing me what suits they stock and whatnot, he asks what other gear I have, and it comes to light (stupid me, or maybe just naive me) that I've bought some stuff from scuba-toys. His words were "you'll find you didn't save much, and don't ever bring it here for service, 'cause we won't work on it." Then he pretty much shooed me out of the shop without further mention of wetsuits - the original reason for the trip.

Obviously, this hasn't sat well with me - kept me awake last night pondering the ins and outs of online vs. LDS, and I've got some opinions that I'll post in a day or so, but I want some others to chime in to see if I'm just whack or if there are things I haven't considered, or if I'm justifiably upset by this experience.
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My thoughts are this:

1) I have spent money and would continue to do so at the shop - for items that are best tried in person and for further training if needed, service, air, etc.

2) Since this board, Joe and Larry have provided me their services by making available many more opinions than I could get otherwise and by helping me decide what I needed and didn't need, the online market in general and scubatoys in particular have earned a portion of my business.

3) I was not trying on the suit there to go buy it elsewhere, and I made that clear to him. I do think that would be wrong, since he had taken the time to show me what they had, help me figure out what would be appropriate, etc. and had incurred the expense of being a brick-and-mortar shop in a fairly high-cost area. I understand his being wary of that, but that should go away when I say I'll buy from him.

4) Some internet suppliers may be cutthroat-izing the industry and ultimately hurting LDSs just the same as online music stores can hurt record shops and Wal-Mart hurts local random-stuff shops. But that only works systemically after commoditization has struck, and SCUBA is not likely to feel that for most gear. And some online shops also put in time and energy fostering the dive community - I know I'd not have gotten certed without knowing that I'd like to be a part of the (very active) local community, which I connected with online.

5) This is kind of turning into a rant, for which I apologize. I have by and large had a great experience with this sport, and was just blindsided by this one...

aparootsa · Jul 12, 2007

a couple replies were posted there...
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Scott Riemer - This gets discussed a lot. My opinion is that if a LDS is gonna shun me because I bought some equipment on-line, then they don't deserve my business. I mean, come on, refusing to service somebody's gear because they didn't buy it from you? IMO, that's ridiculous. Plus, as you mentioned, it's not like you haven't spent money in that shop. Plus, they missed out on the wetsuit sale. Although, they probably thought you were trying them on for size to order one on-line. But, I think the LDS's are struggling enough that they shouldn't be alienating costumers who want to purchase gear on-line also.

That's just my opinion, I'm sure someone will disagree.
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Spratman - I agree with Scott. Find another shop that wants you money and will service things you bought on-line. Mine does that and that get all my repair work.

medic001918 · Jul 12, 2007

I agree with others about finding a new shop. A shop that refuses to service my gear (unless they're not an authorized dealer/service center) will see no more business from me. If you buy a car at one dealership, do you think another dealership will refuse to service it for you? Nope, they'd be happy to take your money. And in doing so, you just might buy some more stuff there. Dive shops need to realize that they're not the only place in town any more. The internet is forcing shops to evolve, and not just in the dive industry.

Shane

ekewaka · Jul 12, 2007

I generally think that it is extremely rude to use an LDS as a fitting room for the internet. In this case, however, I think it would be appropriate, because he was rude to you.

mdb · Jul 12, 2007

aparootsa:
I posted this on SBtoo, but wanted to follow up...
************************
So I went in yesterday to my LDS asking about wetsuits, fully intent on trying a couple on, seeing what they had to say about them, and buying one. Now, I've recently been certed by this dive shop, got a new mask, fins and snorkel (my old ones were in need of retirement) from them as well as a few other things... so I've dropped a good amount of cash there.

In the course of him showing me what suits they stock and whatnot, he asks what other gear I have, and it comes to light (stupid me, or maybe just naive me) that I've bought some stuff from scuba-toys. His words were "you'll find you didn't save much, and don't ever bring it here for service, 'cause we won't work on it." Then he pretty much shooed me out of the shop without further mention of wetsuits - the original reason for the trip.

Obviously, this hasn't sat well with me - kept me awake last night pondering the ins and outs of online vs. LDS, and I've got some opinions that I'll post in a day or so, but I want some others to chime in to see if I'm just whack or if there are things I haven't considered, or if I'm justifiably upset by this experience.
***************************
My thoughts are this:

1) I have spent money and would continue to do so at the shop - for items that are best tried in person and for further training if needed, service, air, etc.

2) Since this board, Joe and Larry have provided me their services by making available many more opinions than I could get otherwise and by helping me decide what I needed and didn't need, the online market in general and scubatoys in particular have earned a portion of my business.

3) I was not trying on the suit there to go buy it elsewhere, and I made that clear to him. I do think that would be wrong, since he had taken the time to show me what they had, help me figure out what would be appropriate, etc. and had incurred the expense of being a brick-and-mortar shop in a fairly high-cost area. I understand his being wary of that, but that should go away when I say I'll buy from him.

4) Some internet suppliers may be cutthroat-izing the industry and ultimately hurting LDSs just the same as online music stores can hurt record shops and Wal-Mart hurts local random-stuff shops. But that only works systemically after commoditization has struck, and SCUBA is not likely to feel that for most gear. And some online shops also put in time and energy fostering the dive community - I know I'd not have gotten certed without knowing that I'd like to be a part of the (very active) local community, which I connected with online.

5) This is kind of turning into a rant, for which I apologize. I have by and large had a great experience with this sport, and was just blindsided by this one...

Just another LDS with their head securely in the wrong place. Folks like www.scubatoys.com are a fine LDS, lots of inventory, no attitude, in store pool, great staff, good instruction, etc. Your experience is, unfortunately, very typical. Do not let it stop you from lots of good diving, after all you are in the region of the country where "Lob-stahs" fight back

JahJahwarrior · Jul 12, 2007

Yes, you are right to be upset. Find a different shop! The shop that certified me gave me all sorts of crap when I took in a BC I had purchased there, used. I didn't tell the guy at the counter that I bought it there, and he had to go back to talk to the owner (the lady that certified me) about it, I wanted to use their tool to open up the valve to check on a leak. She told him to tell me the toolbox was locked and the repairguy whouldn't be in until almost two weeks later, and he locked his toolboxes to keep people from using them. I left, and won't be back. I am pretty certain that what they told me was bull, as during class one girl had a problem with her bc leaking from the same spot, and the lady took it in tha tnight and fixed it. So either they are full of it or their repair guy suddenly starts locking his toolboxes a few months after OW class. (they said he's only in once a week and his boxes are only open when he's there)

In the past few months, I've gotten to hear almost every single shop badmouth every other shop out there. I've been pretty much called stupid for shopping at other places....it's kind of annoying. Only one shop has not badmouthed the other shops (actually though, one employee there did. But, that guy is a huge hulk of a person, and kind of ugly. He also always has on sunglasses. In general, I don't like the guy, and wish I knew when he was working as I would rather not buy things with him there) (the manager at the place though is usually the one there when I stop by, and he never talks bad about the other shops) and that is the shop that currently gets my business. I pretty much try to not ever have to enter the other shops

But it's been depressing seeing how cutthroat and mean EVERY shop and their owners are around here. They all seem to hate everyone else, it's all pretty divisive.

almitywife · Jul 12, 2007

.... opps - wrong thread

reservecops · Jul 12, 2007

aparootsa:
... it comes to light (stupid me, or maybe just naive me) that I've bought some stuff from scuba-toys. His words were "you'll find you didn't save much, and don't ever bring it here for service, 'cause we won't work on it."

That's just about the point where I would have said, "You don't have to worry about me bringing anything to you for service, because I think you're a moron,", and then walked out the door.

I was contemplating a Bare 3/2 Hyperstrech a few weeks ago. Scubatoys had them for $159, I think.

I stopped by a local LDS to pick up a new dive log binder, and there sitting smack dab in the middle of the shop was THE exact wetsuit I wanted. There was no price on it, so I asked them. The guy checks the tag on another one (same rack), and says, "$149".

So I grabbed it and tried it on - it fit great! Sounds like a sale to me.

When he rings it up, however, it rings up at $199.

I say, "I thought it was $149?"

He says, "Sorry, that was a different one." (Remember, HE checked the price/suit on the rack).

I say, "You know, I saw this suit online for $149. How about if we split the difference and I'll give you $175 for it.

He refused. Would not budge a nickel.

I said, "Well, I guess that, if you're not willing to deal, I'm not willing to be a customer of yours."

I walked out the door, and that's the last he'll see of me.

NO, I didn't go in there to try on a suit (I went there for a binder). But when this new (to me) LDS refused to even barter a deal (and potentially create a new RETURN customer), I decided that I wouldn't be shopping there.

Morons like that (and the one you ran into) do not deserve your business, nor do you owe it to them to shop there. They have to earn it, and as far as I can tell, he screwed himself by being a jerk.

MentalMarine · Jul 12, 2007

I just got back from my lds, and man am I impressed! A few days ago I put in an order at LP, I cancelled it the next day after I found out about the warrenty situation and was brought up to speed about the "grey-market". AM I GLAD I DID! I went in to the lds and told them I had a limited budget and what I was looking for, expecting to pay a little more. (I want the manuf. warrenty and all that jazz.) They were really helpfull making the selections, as we were going through the regulators, she asks me if I wanted a computer. I told her that I wanted one but I dont think I can afford it, she says well make it fit your budget. It fit my budget

So turns out I spent about the same I would have at LP I have the warrenty, oh and the computer comes with a class

. My regulator had to be ordered but she offered the free use of a rental untill it comes in, if I want to dive this weekend. I am REALLY impressed with the lds, they did a fantastic job working with me and the prices. I left the store with a big smile, two bags full of gear and a happy feelling. Unlike the uneasy feeling I had with lp. Give your lds a shot, you may be surprised.

Colliam7 · Jul 16, 2007

medic001918:
I agree with others about finding a new shop. ... If you buy a car at one dealership, do you think another dealership will refuse to service it for you? Nope, they'd be happy to take your money.

Agree completely with the recommendations, to look elsewhere. Sounds like the shop person was having a bad day, because the behavior was inappropriate. One small item to keep in mind, since the car dealership analogy has been used. A car dealership will not refuse to service your car, specifically to perform warranty service, because you bought it elsewhere. However, many (very good) dealerships, will prioritize their workload, if they are quite busy, according to whether or not they sold the car. In other words, if 10 people show up on Monday morning for warranty service, and five of the vehicles were purchased at the dearlership, and five elsewhere, the order of service will probably be the five vehicles purchased at the dealership first, followed by the five not purchased there, irrespective of the order in which they were checked in. The same is true for dive shops. And, there is nothing wrong with that - it is simply good business. Take good care of your best customers first, and then take good care of your other customers. One of the reasons I buy all of my new gear, and do all of my training and trips, through one shop is that it puts me in the position of getting preferential treatment. Yep, I buy (and sell) used gear on eBay, and the shop (which does not handle used gear) knows it, and understands. But, I support the LDS, they support me, and I seriously doubt that I would save money buying online, considering the pricing and convenience I get from the LDS. In fairness, the LDS is very good, I get a lot of (good) advice from them, and they offer virtually everything I need. But, I also earned the preferential treatment by giving them preferential treatment.

Am I missing something? - WWW vs LDS

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