Seeking Opinions on Troubling Incident

As a shop owner I hear a lot of things... so before I jump to any rash decisions on this one, I'm asking for help from both sides of the aisle. I'd like to hear from recently certified students on this - as well as Instructors... as the incident involves both.

One of my Instructors called me yesterday afternoon to report an incident that had occurred at a local quarry. I'll try to keep the story as short as possible.

My Instructor was on the last dive of a two day open water checkout with two students. They were on their way back from doing a dive and at the end of the dive, one of the students stopped on a platform at a depth of 20ft to do his safety stop.

At the time, an Instructor from another shop had a single student on this platform doing some skills. I'll preface the rest of the story by saying the platform is large enough to reasonably fit 6 people on it. So now there are three people on it. My Instructors student, the Instructor from the other shop and that Instructors student.

My Instructor and his other student are hovering just off the platform.

The Instructor from the other shop inexplicably swims over to our student and shoves him very hard off the platform causing our student to lose his balance from a kneeling position.

So here are my questions for anyone with an opinion.

1. As a student, how would you feel if that happened to you and what would you want done about it?

2. As an Instructor, would you ever do such a thing and if so, what justification do you think you have to do so in a public quarry.

3. Had you been our Instructor in this incident, what would you have done underwater at the time of the incident or later after the incident if given the opportunity?

4. Would any of you go back to that quarry if you knew the assaulting Instructor was an Instructor working at that quarry's dive shop?

I know what I want to do and what I would have done had I been in the water at the time... as well as what I would have done out of the water afterwards... but I also know that wouldn't have been pretty... so I'm looking for opinions on how a calmer, cooler, collected me may respond when the time is appropriate.

My Instructor who reported this to me spent his time grabbing our student and pulling him away... which I think was appropriate. Afterwards he had no opportunity to address the matter - and called me instead.

In any event, thanks in advance for your thoughts on this one... has anyone else out there had a similar incident?

I would have your instructor write an incident report and send it to the appropriate agency. The student could also go so far as to file assault charges against the instructor. I can't think if any situation that could justify that kind of behavior from anyone let alone an instructor.

It's been a while since I was certified and I am not an instructor but I want to respond non the less. The pushy instructor has no business training divers. For a new diver, or anyone else, to be shoved off a safety stop is inexcusable.

1. As a student, how would you feel if that happened to you and what would you want done about it?
- As an instructor - I'll keep it brief. I'd be rather p'd off.

2. As an Instructor, would you ever do such a thing and if so, what justification do you think you have to do so in a public quarry.
- All the time, not this exactly, but similar issues. In Lake Travis TX there have been many instructors over the years who get a feeling of ownership on platforms. I don't see any justification, but just like the rest of life, there are a lot of jerks out there.

3. Had you been our Instructor in this incident, what would you have done underwater at the time of the incident or later after the incident if given the opportunity?
- What I usually do, but I never put my students kneeling on the platform for safety stops. I have them hover off the platform, using the railing if necessary to steady themselves. But I've often had to "step in" even in this situation for the same reason. I've had words at the surface with a few of these guys. The owner of the operation there does back us in this case though. That helps.


4. Would any of you go back to that quarry if you knew the assaulting Instructor was an Instructor working at that quarry's dive shop?
- Not until that shop had established some sort of understanding with ALL instructors (theirs and others) about use of facilities. (i.e., what constitutes over crowding of a platform, student positioning, etc.) If they feel they have "imminent domain" and can take precedence over other instructors and other shops, then it's time to move on.

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A side note I picked up here. Why do instructors tend to "park" their students on the platform when not doing skills? I don't let a student stand/sit/kneel on a platform unless there is a reason. That's not diving - it's hanging around underwater breathing bubbles.

If instructors put students on the edge, off of the platform there's room for controlled instruction for several instructors, and the divers can work on buoyancy while waiting. When I have assistants I use them to take divers not doing skills on tours. The students have more fun swimming around seeing things, they don't get cold, and I don't have a crowded platform.

Most of the instructors who DM'd with me now do the same thing. It works like a champ.

Anyway, those were my answers above. I suggest a talk with the owner of the quarry/shop to get a "ruling" on this, as it may affect his instructors too. If he/she has a "mine then anyone else" attitude, find another location ASAP.

That's assault. File the reports, get the student to bring a charge. Instructors do not behave like that. He'll think twice before pulling such a stunt again.

katdiver:

That's assault. File the reports, get the student to bring a charge. Instructors do not behave like that. He'll think twice before pulling such a stunt again.

Click to expand...

Etiquette issues aside, that is just straight assault, whether it occurs above or below the water. I would have zero tolerance.

Putting the assult aside. This was a student that seems to have been doing what they were taught to do. Part of the training is being comfortable in the water and this incident probably made the student uneasy. I can see the incident escalating into a panic situation rather quickly. I hope from the student's view point that they are OK with returning to the water and that they realize that most of the dive community does not act that way.

You used the right term: "the assaulting Instructor ". And there is at least one witness. If you don't deal with this in one way or another as an assault, then you are condoning the action.

Assault is assault, under the water or on the surface, and as such is not to be tolerated.

I would have immediately removed my student from the situation, defending if necessary, and got out of there. I would have called the police and taken them over to the offender. Let the police deal with it. I would have obtained a copy of the police report and filed with the offender's agency.

I have zero tolerance for uncivilized behavior.

I would like to see how he manages to defend his action as a "prudent" professional. Don't get into a slanging match over this one, file the charge.