Knots

I couldn't find a place where this had been discussed before, and if it's obvious to all of you cavers out there, please bear with me... I'd never seen it before and so I thought I'd share.

Recently I went diving at Ginnie Springs, and in the cavern at the main spring someone had tied off a cave line and ran it across the cavern. Obviously, they were doing some simple training ("How to run a line properly?") and left it there overnight. There was a little slate attached that said something to the effect of, "Please do not remove... Training." Since I could see both ends of the line (and no foreign divers) I could kinda see what was going on there. Despite the fact that there was a very expensive reel attached to the line, I left it in place, as requested.

Anyway, to do a little skill set of my own, I tied a spool line off to the same point where they'd tied theirs off to... A Ginnie Spring "permanent" cable. For those of you unfamiliar, the standard isn't to actually "tie" anything... Our lines have a largish (6"-8") loop tied (and then heated with a match to ensure the knot doesn't come undone) to the end of the line, and we simply loop the spool/reel through it and close the loop around whatever, lasso style. Pulling it taught produces a secure connection that can't be undone without the reel/spool in hand, save for cutting the line. This prevents what would otherwise be a catastrophe... Losing the "tie off" point.

Anyway, I went and practiced running the spool out (I prefer them to reels in open water) and then followed my trail back without losing buoyancy or losing control of my light. When I got back to the tie off point, though, I found that I'd pulled the loop pretty tight... And since my tie off point didn't have a large diameter, I found myself having to use my nails underwater to losen what had become a knot.

Looking for a simple solution to this waste of time and dive, I later retied my "loop" with a little "baby loop" coming off of it.

Here's a rough sketch:

http://www.bftwave.net/lcscuba/knot.jpg

I use the loop as per normal, but when I get back to it, the "baby loop" is sticking up (it's about an inch long) and I can hook a finger in it and a gentle tug is all that's required to get it to release.

Simple... Effective... Free. Only the main knot of the "adult loop" has been touched with a match to get it to stay. The "baby loop" isn't something to worry about coming undone, although it's nice-n-tight and I shouldn't have a problem with it.

Thoughts from the cavers? Howcome I've never seen this before? Seems like a good idea.

(Yeah, I know... I made a big deal over a stupid knot... Whoopee.)

SeaJay once bubbled...
Thoughts from the cavers? Howcome I've never seen this before? Seems like a good idea.

Click to expand...

That's exactly how my Halcyon spool was rigged from the factory.
CD had a name for it.

No kidding.

...And here I thought we were going to be able to call the little trick the "SeaJay Knot."

I've never noticed it on the reels before. It didn't come that way on my spool. I don't own a Halcyon reel, but some of my buddies do... And I've never noticed if they've got "SeaJay Knots" or not.



Ah, well.

Yes, it's called the woody-jasper modification

I've never seen it before in real life, but it is very very similar to what SeaJay has done.

SeaJay once bubbled...
Despite the fact that there was a very expensive reel attached to the line, I left it in place, as requested.

Click to expand...

Good move. When I took my cave course I inquired about the leaving of equipment overnight in a cave practice for fear of it getting stolen.

I was told there was a name for removing someone else's equipment from a cave environment in Florida. The call it "attempted murder."

SeaJay once bubbled...
Anyway, I went and practiced running the spool out (I prefer them to reels in open water) and then followed my trail back without losing buoyancy or losing control of my light. When I got back to the tie off point, though, I found that I'd pulled the loop pretty tight... And since my tie off point didn't have a large diameter, I found myself having to use my nails underwater to losen what had become a knot.

Click to expand...

Seems like you pulled the line way too tight. If you are tying off to the permanent guideline, you dont want to put a strain on either it, or your line in the event they break. Of course this is one of the things they cover during cavern/cave training, and the reason why you should have that training before playing around in those environments. You don't know what you don't know, and what you don't know can kill you.

SeaJay once bubbled...
Looking for a simple solution to this waste of time and dive, I later retied my "loop" with a little "baby loop" coming off of it.

Here's a rough sketch:

http://www.bftwave.net/lcscuba/knot.jpg

I use the loop as per normal, but when I get back to it, the "baby loop" is sticking up (it's about an inch long) and I can hook a finger in it and a gentle tug is all that's required to get it to release.

Simple... Effective... Free. Only the main knot of the "adult loop" has been touched with a match to get it to stay. The "baby loop" isn't something to worry about coming undone, although it's nice-n-tight and I shouldn't have a problem with it.

Thoughts from the cavers? Howcome I've never seen this before? Seems like a good idea.

(Yeah, I know... I made a big deal over a stupid knot... Whoopee.)

Click to expand...

It's called a Woody-Jasper modification. Chick Diver has explained it in depth before, but I don't remember on which board. The reason for the smaller loop is to loop it over the lock down screw on a reel so that you wind the line all the way into the reel. There's a slightly more in depth answer, but I don't have time to post it at the moment.

There’s no name for it, but I took an old tank banger apart (free from somewhere so $0.00 invested) and used the ball as a way to store the line nicely and provide a grab when removing it from the tie off point. Enjoy the pics.


Reel Picture 1 Reel Picture 2

SeaJay once bubbled...

...And here I thought we were going to be able to call the little trick the "SeaJay Knot."

Click to expand...

No a "SeaJay Knot" is the feeling in the pit of the stomach that you give those around you who care the most about you. R

.....who care the most about you.

Click to expand...

OH Enough Already! Admit it - you two are the same person in real life, right?

uke:

That's funny. But No. We are not. I've been tested with this question so many times. What's up with you people? LOL Why would you think that? R

Edited to say: Ask some of your cohorts in Canada. I've spoken with them in person. I am me... He's him.... We are us not the same one. LOL