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Ulfhedinn
November 18th, 2011, 02:38 PM
Any dive site recommendations for getting in some 100' - 130' dives from shore? I have been out at the Yukon out of La Jolla but Im looking to save on the boat fee and get more exp time at that depth. I could only think the shelf out from La Jolla? Any others?

Rainer
November 18th, 2011, 02:50 PM
I'd *strongly* recommend building more experience shallow before heading past 100'. Quite frankly, given our cold, dark waters at depths past 100', it really isn't a great idea for new divers to venture there, especially on narcotic air or other nitrox mixes. Locally, helium is your friend deep.

For those that just have to dive deep, the two shore spots that offer such depths are La Jolla Shores and Veterans Park. Both sites offer MUCH better diving in the 60' range.

Ulfhedinn
November 18th, 2011, 03:26 PM
Thanks for the info. I understand I can use more down time but Im looking to take IANTD Advanced TRimix next year so I wanted to get some more dives at a deeper lvl without the added boat cost.

Rainer
November 18th, 2011, 03:35 PM
I just don't think these deeper shore dives we have in SoCal teach you much about deeper diving.

The sand slopes become *very* gradual at these depths, especially at Vets. This means you'll use up a lot of gas just getting to depth. Given the reserve necessary to safely get two divers up from 130', nevermind the incredibly short NDLs, this leaves almost no time (if any) at depth (from either a gas capacity view, at least for singles, or an NDL view). You're also looking at a moonscape (lots of sand, basically no life). The lack of features and almost no slope can make these areas very disorienting. Add in the inevitable narcosis and the chance of getting turned around is increased significantly. The lack of dramatic slope also means a long return to shallow depth, and basically no practice in long mid-water ascents (one of the few deeper diving skills worth practicing).

Deeper diving, IMO, means practicing the following:

(1) Pre-dive planning (min gas, turn pressures, expected consumption, NDL calcs, etc)
(2) Mid-water ascents (including while gas-sharing and deploying a dSMB)

Both of the above are better honed in shallower water (where the consequences of mistakes are reduced and the skills are actually harder due to greater pressure change with depth). Only once those skills are mastered does it make sense to actually go gain the deeper (~100') experience. For that, I'd rather go do some enjoyable boat dives than some of the most boring possible shore ones.

YMMV.

Captain12Pk
November 18th, 2011, 04:16 PM
He's given you some good advice. He knows what he's talking about. Besides, I fail to see how (presumably) diving air at 130 fsw. is adequately going to prepare you for diving TX at 130fsw. All of the T classes I've taken; we did our training in relatively shallow water. Learning in 130 fsw is (IMO) not the best plan.

Good luck.

Ulfhedinn
November 18th, 2011, 08:18 PM
I see your point. I have been to 100-105 at La Jolla. Yes its a bit a swim topside... Never been to Vets I assume they are similar.

I was told that you need to have x amount of deep dives under your belt before taking the class. Maybe I was wrong. Hence the reason for diving deep. I plan to dive EANx32 so I was planning to stay closer to 100-105 to keep me in a safer pp02.

Maybe I can make friends with someone with a boat who is cool with splitting the gas ;)


I just don't think these deeper shore dives we have in SoCal teach you much about deeper diving.

The sand slopes become *very* gradual at these depths, especially at Vets. This means you'll use up a lot of gas just getting to depth. Given the reserve necessary to safely get two divers up from 130', nevermind the incredibly short NDLs, this leaves almost no time (if any) at depth (from either a gas capacity view, at least for singles, or an NDL view). You're also looking at a moonscape (lots of sand, basically no life). The lack of features and almost no slope can make these areas very disorienting. Add in the inevitable narcosis and the chance of getting turned around is increased significantly. The lack of dramatic slope also means a long return to shallow depth, and basically no practice in long mid-water ascents (one of the few deeper diving skills worth practicing).

Deeper diving, IMO, means practicing the following:

(1) Pre-dive planning (min gas, turn pressures, expected consumption, NDL calcs, etc)
(2) Mid-water ascents (including while gas-sharing and deploying a dSMB)

Both of the above are better honed in shallower water (where the consequences of mistakes are reduced and the skills are actually harder due to greater pressure change with depth). Only once those skills are mastered does it make sense to actually go gain the deeper (~100') experience. For that, I'd rather go do some enjoyable boat dives than some of the most boring possible shore ones.

YMMV.

DiveNav
November 18th, 2011, 08:31 PM
.....For those that just have to dive deep, the two shore spots that offer such depths are La Jolla Shores and Veterans Park. .....
Isn't Scripps Canyon - Sumner branch - the third one (this one gets deep relatively quickly)?
But I guess you need to walk a bit to get there.


108335


Alberto (aka eDiver)

Bubbletrubble
November 18th, 2011, 08:35 PM
I have to agree that it would be best to get more experience (and perhaps additional training which incorporates gas management) before conducting dives in the 100-130 fsw range. Moreover, your buoyancy control and buddy skills should really be very good before conducting any deeper dives. Rainer gives good advice with regard to being comfortable with mid-water (I call 'em "blue water") ascents where you'll probably need to rely on your instruments heavily. Understand that at La Jolla Shores, if you need to abort a deep dive, you'll almost certainly be doing a mid-water ascent.

At a minimum, please read and understand NWGratefulDiver's essay on gas management (http://www.nwgratefuldiver.com/articles/gas.html) at your earliest convenience.

After working on all of the above, you can certainly conduct dives at La Jolla Shores in that depth range.
The Secret Garden (100-110 fsw) is a fun dive site to check out. In my opinion, there's plenty to see there. The gorgonians are beautiful.
The neat thing about a Secret Garden dive is that you can hit other dive sites on the way back to shore. You can very easily visit an area I call the Crab patch (detritus patch at 60-80 fsw north of the Main Wall that's chock-full of nudibranchs, fish, and crab) and spend a few minutes at the Main Wall. If you are feeling adventurous, you can also navigate from the Secret Garden to the Main Point (Vallecitos Point). It's my favorite way to approach the Main Point. :D

There's also Scripps Canyon...which is an advanced dive site -- certainly not a site I would recommend to a beginner diver. That being said, Scripps Canyon is my favorite shore dive in the San Diego area. So much to see. It's always nice to say hello to the swell sharks there. Get at least 50 lifetime dives under various conditions before attempting a dive there. FYI, unless you have a key to the gate at La Jolla Farms, shore access isn't very convenient. It's a loooooong hike from SIO.

Have fun out there and dive safely...

leabre
November 18th, 2011, 09:18 PM
I was told that you need to have x amount of deep dives under your belt before taking the class. Maybe I was wrong. Hence the reason for diving deep.

I'm not sure what is the rush for going deeper is but I assume you have your reasons. Mine was to see wrecks that are deeper than 100'. As Rainer said earlier, at that level of diving your ascents and mid-water skills really need to be in-check and well-honed. Your team skills for problem identification and smooth resolution also needs to be well-refined because at 4 or 5 ATA gas burns quickly and much more so from stress or some equipment failure involving leaks. Taking a tech class where such team skills are instilled will not be easy if you're still working on becoming comfortable with any other foundational aspect of it. If you have to learn the foundational skills during your tech class then you'll likely have a very difficult time completing your tech class.

Based on the wording your message it sounds like you would benefit much more from diving to gain experience rather than diving just to meet a criteria for x dives than go Trimix. It would be wiser to proceed when ready rather than when x dives is completed (unless they happen to be one and the same in your case). Deco diving is no joking matter. If this fit hits the shan then you need to have confidence that you and your team can deal with problem # 1 to prevent further problems that can become life-threatening.

I live in Orange County and dive mostly Laguna - Redondo Beach (Veterans Park that was mentioned earlier). I can come down to San Diego on occasion. If you'd like to get together and go diving and possibly even work on some of those skills let me know.

Ulfhedinn
November 18th, 2011, 10:28 PM
I love wrecks :) Once I dove the Yukon I was hooked.

I don't want you to think that my next X amount of dives will be all deep just to take the class. I plan on getting in another 30 -50 or more dives of any and all depths before I even spend the money for that objective. Rescue Dive is my next class (Hopefully in Jan). Its just that I wanted some options as I dive. My woman dives with me and she perfers the 30-60 range so most of my dives have been in that range. I appreciate the offer leabre for getting together I might take you up on that. I can use the insight.

I am reading Deco for Divers and The Sixth Skills but I understand that its the time in the water that is really important as that's the medium we are really dealing with.


I'm not sure what is the rush for going deeper is but I assume you have your reasons. Mine was to see wrecks that are deeper than 100'. As Rainer said earlier, at that level of diving your ascents and mid-water skills really need to be in-check and well-honed. Your team skills for problem identification and smooth resolution also needs to be well-refined because at 4 or 5 ATA gas burns quickly and much more so from stress or some equipment failure involving leaks. Taking a tech class where such team skills are instilled will not be easy if you're still working on becoming comfortable with any other foundational aspect of it. If you have to learn the foundational skills during your tech class then you'll likely have a very difficult time completing your tech class.

Based on the wording your message it sounds like you would benefit much more from diving to gain experience rather than diving just to meet a criteria for x dives than go Trimix. It would be wiser to proceed when ready rather than when x dives is completed (unless they happen to be one and the same in your case). Deco diving is no joking matter. If this fit hits the shan then you need to have confidence that you and your team can deal with problem # 1 to prevent further problems that can become life-threatening.

I live in Orange County and dive mostly Laguna - Redondo Beach (Veterans Park that was mentioned earlier). I can come down to San Diego on occasion. If you'd like to get together and go diving and possibly even work on some of those skills let me know.

Akimbo
November 18th, 2011, 10:31 PM
La Jolla Shores/Scripps Canyon is an excellent location to expand your deep diving skills from the beach. The swim is short to the canyon drop-off. I can’t remember the landmarks for shore entry but it isn’t hard to find. Most of the dive shops can tell you. The bottom in the canyon quickly turns to mud so you will silt-up if your buoyancy skills need work.

Hatul
November 20th, 2011, 12:43 PM
La Jolla Canyon from Vallecitos and Redondo Canyon at Veterans Park in Redondo. Parking is often a problem in La Jolla and it's a longer swim but there's more to see there.

Redondo is mostly beach sand but occassionally you do see some interesting sea life and parking at Vets Park is metered, bring lots of quarters. You swim on your back to past the end of the pier (which is a bit north) and descend. It's a fairly easy dive to the depths and drops off gradually. Circle around and come back along the bottom and you will decompress on the way back. Check the swells before you drive there, the beach faces west and drops off quickly.

The Dive Vets is a club that does night dives there every Wednesday.


Adam

aquaregia
November 20th, 2011, 02:19 PM
Why Advanced Trimix so soon? I've always been of the opinion that if you have to work to get the required dives you probably don't have the experience that they really want you to have.

Monterey has a lovely place to do 100' dives, but I imagine that's even less affordable than rides to the Yukon :)

Ulfhedinn
November 20th, 2011, 02:33 PM
Its true I don't have 100's of dives under my belt and I don't plan to dive on Trimex anytime soon. But I can be a little type A and I enjoy learning. I like to look at long term goals through the the action of short term goals. I enjoy diving for diving's sake but I also want to check out wrecks at 100' plus plus the science of diving on Helium interests me. I have noticed that some people dive 32/30 in the 1-30M range for reasons they state are reduction of physiological stress and eliminate narc. I don't know if that is true but I would sure like to find out.



Why Advanced Trimix so soon? I've always been of the opinion that if you have to work to get the required dives you probably don't have the experience that they really want you to have.

Monterey has a lovely place to do 100' dives, but I imagine that's even less affordable than rides to the Yukon :)

aquaregia
November 20th, 2011, 03:12 PM
Its true I don't have 100's of dives under my belt and I don't plan to dive on Trimex anytime soon. But I can be a little type A and I enjoy learning. I like to look at long term goals through the the action of short term goals. I enjoy diving for diving's sake but I also want to check out wrecks at 100' plus plus the science of diving on Helium interests me. I have noticed that some people dive 32/30 in the 1-30M range for reasons they state are reduction of physiological stress and eliminate narc. I don't know if that is true but I would sure like to find out.

Cool, I'm fairly similar. I'm academically interested in gas mixes (degree in phys chem) and the comparison of theory with personal observation.

You might want to look into a Fundies course or something. It has a lot of content, especially kinesthetically, and if your motivation is learning/coaching rather than certification it might be a good fit. It's expensive and allows you to do nothing more (actually in some ways less) than what an AOW cert does, but the content is very good.


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