Proper wing size

[Nwcid]

Me and the GF are in the process of buying gear. We have decided to go BP/W. Found a good deal on some used stuff but worried about the wing size. The used ones we found were a 44# and #45.

Most of our diving is going to be in fresh cold water under 60* so we currently have (and will be quite sometime before we will change) have 7mm full suites with 7mm outers with 5mm boots and gloves. I am about 240# and she is about 160#. We dont have tanks yet but due to price (going to need 4 since dont live near a dive shop) we are looking at AL80's. No plans on doing doubles any time soon either.

We do plan on doing some traveling to salt water a few times a year. Half will still be cold water and half will be nice tropical places so I am sure we will have less gear on.

So will the 44/45# work or is that too much for what we want?

[davetowz]

The Deco Stop (http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32358)
and if still unsure.. call Tobin..he will help you.

[Nwcid]

Needs a log in......

[davetowz]

That one post will be worth the time to create one. Just be careful posting there, many advanced divers... They are territorial! :) but plenty of good solid info.

[Tortuga68]

...7mm full suites with 7mm outers with 5mm boots and gloves. I am about 240# and she is about 160# ...we are looking at AL80's. No plans on doing doubles any time soon either... So will the 44/45# work or is that too much for what we want?

Doubles or not isn't an issue since you should have dedicated wings for singles and doiubles anyway

Also your body weight isn't a direct factor - how much weight do you have on your weight belts?

45# is probably going to be more than you need for a single AL80 but I'm not clear on what you mean by 7mm suits with 7mm outers... sounds like a lot of neoprene (and you should get a drysuit)

Here's a link that doesn't need a log in: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/buoyancy-compensators-bcs-weight-systems/158370-ultimate-wing-lift-calculator.html

[ae3753]

The short answer is that the 44#/45# wings are probably too large. Generally speaking, you don't need that much buoyancy for singles, and wings with that much lift are often too wide and will taco too much around your tank of choice. A wing that's very wide will make venting of gas more difficult that it needs to be.

Wing should do a few things:
1. Offset the weight of the gas in your tanks so you can be neutrally buoyant in the water
2. Adequately float you on the surface
3. Adequately float your gear on the surface without you
4. Compensate for loss of exposure suit buoyancy

Since you're in PNW and you're diving 14mm, point 4. would be valid reason to get a large wing. At 60', your wetsuit isn't as buoyant as it was at 33', nor at the surface.

For the tropics, the 44#/45# will definitely be too large. It's diveable for sure, but very inefficient. But that's one of the benefits of a BP/W. Many of us of have small < 20# wing for tropical diving.

[scubafanatic]

...it's something of an urban legend that a 40 lbs wing is 'tropical overkill'......not all wings are created equal, and my Oxy Extreme 40 lbs single wings are VERY streamlined (no dreaded bungies or 'taco-of-death syndrome) and they give me extra reserve lift for contingencies.

[Nwcid]

The 2 wings are DiveRite REC wing (45lbs lift) and Zeagle Ranger (44lbs lift).

I was not sure about what things were required for determining lift so I listed all I could think of. Dry suites are out of the question at the moment since there are 2 of us that means $2000-$4000. I keep calling the outer piece an "outer" but Bare calls it a "step in hooded vest", Dive - Products - Wetsuits - 7mm Elastek Step-In Hooded Vest - Men's (http://www.baresports.com/en-US/Dive/Products/Wetsuits/7mm-Elastek-Step-In-Hooded-Vest/Mens)

She was wearing 28 lb weight and I was at 34 lbs.

I am just worried about wasting money on a item that we are not going to be able to use. If they are useable without too much negative effect (size, drag, ect) then I feel comfortable buying them.

[katepnatl]

In the linked thread below, amongst quite a bit of other noise, you can find a fairly detailed discussion of several people's opinions regarding wing size (among other things). Personally I think the proposed wings are larger than optimal, even more so given the fact you plan on diving Al80's for your local diving.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/buoyancy-compensators-bcs-weight-systems/399083-halcyon-infinity-new-diver.html

[saxplayer1004]

Both of those wings are not very good for singles. The rec wing is a fantastic doubles wing if you have the older narrow doubles. The ranger wing is a funky wing and I would never buy one.
With a SS plate you'll negate the tank and a bit of the suit. The Halcyon 40lb wings are overkill for the tropics, but that doesn't mean they're bad wings. They're cut is really nice, and the same with the HOG 32lb wings. The Rec wing is wider at the bottom to accommodate doubles and tacos really bad. What you really should do is call tobin at deep sea supply and talk to him about wing size. You also should go to the pool with your wetsuits and do a proper weight check.
Have one in the pool fully dressed, and the other will add weights to a belt. Start with 20lbs and add 2lbs at a time until when they have fully exhaled they start sinking. Don't do this with any other gear on and that will give you the true amount of weight that you need to sink you and your exposure protection. Take that weight, add in about 10lbs and that's your wing lift. 10lbs factors in use of steel tanks which you'll want, as well as keeping your head above water and an extra 3lbs so you can float.
While you're at it, I know it's expensive but invest in steel tanks. You're throwing money away and throwing your back out by diving AL80's in that area.
Fabor LP 119 Steel scuba tank (http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/spo/2711213495.html)
7 SCUBA Tanks (http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/spo/2708157467.html)
SCUBA Tanks LP 98 (http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/spo/2709429542.html)
That last one especially is worth the drive. Those will remove about 5lbs of weight off of your belt and give you almost 30% more air. The 8inch diameter tank will also help in the wing aspect because the wider tank will help minimize the taco effect.

Oxycheq Mach V - Signature Series 40lb [ROW-08-40] - $280.00 : Cave Adventurers!, We will NOT be undersold!!! (http://caveadventurers.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_19&products_id=122)
That is a good 40lb wing. Call Edd and see if he can put some black friday package deal together for you since you're buying two backplate sets.
Backplate and Wings - Backplate and Wing Packages -- Save Big!!!! - Deep Sea Supply Single Tank Backplate and Wing Package (http://northeastscubasupply.com/store/backplate-and-wings/backplate-and-wing-packages-save-big-/deep-sea-supply-single-tank-backplate-and-wing-package-a-lcd40-wing/prod_2441.html)
That is a good deal, not gonna lie. You get the DSS wings and plates which are kick ass, and John is a great guy to deal with.
Backplate and Wings - Backplate and Wing Packages -- Save Big!!!! - Dive Rite Backplate And Wing Package #1 - Northeast Scuba Supply (http://northeastscubasupply.com/store/backplate-and-wings/backplate-and-wing-packages-save-big-/dive-rite-backplate-and-wing-package-1/prod_334.html)
Also good, but get the voyager wing from diverite if you're doing that one. Both are great quality.

[Rascally Rabbit]

It's an issue with quite a bit of debate. One school of thought is a wing just able to float your kit. The other makes the point that some wings with more positive buoyancy are so streamline that the smaller wings offer little or no advantage and these streamline wings allow you to use them in a wider variety of configurations such as with larger/heavier steel tanks. Besides the ability to use them with a heavier tank I myself prefer a wing with more lift capacity than the minimum. It could come in handy if you find something you want to lift without using a liftbag (within reason) or in the event of a rescue of a unresponsive OOA diver particularly the way some divers overweight.

[Nwcid]

Thanks so much for the info.

Out of 3 local (only 2 I will use) dive shops neither has a pool so only way to get wet is jump in local bodies of water and it is ski season here. First chance I get we will do some proper weight checks as soon as we can. Most likely the next 2 times of getting wet will be in Jan if we are able to do a weekend dive on the coast with one of the local shops. After that we are going to Hawaii in May. Come spring/summer here we will be getting wet every weekend we can.

Sax thanks for all the time you took with that post. I will have to do more research into used steel tanks. Like everyone else price is a factor and our location in relationship to being able to rent stuff it is more cost effective to buy our own. We can get local air fills though.

Here is the gear we are working on a deal with a member here;
2,Dive Rite TransPlate Harness Size L
4.tank straps
2,Dive Rite Stainless Steel Back Plate
1,Dive Rite Rec Wing
1,Zeagle Ranger Wing
Free Plastic STA, extra webbings and bolts

He wants $550 for all and I have seen pics of all. It is in my price range. For both wings are $230 of that price. I can not afford to spend ~$300 x2 for different wings right now. The only other possible option would be the HOG 32# wings that are on sale for $178 right now. Any thoughts on those?

[saxplayer1004]

hell, for that price, I'd just jump on it and call it good. It sounds like you truly need a 40ishlb wing, and the rec wing isn't that bad, it's tolerable. I did my open water training in one. You'll get harassed by a lot of people about the transplate harnesses, but when I was diving a hard plate I loved mine, and my transpac uses the same harness and I love it. To each his own, if you don't like it, you can always turn around and sell them. If you decide you don't like one of the big wings and it's too big, I have a 30lb diverite wing that I'll trade you for the rec wing.

If you have the option to rent tanks I'd do that, but don't go out and buy AL80's, it's just not worth it.

[Nwcid]

I have read a lot about the Harness and while it goes back and forth it "makes me feel better" then going with the real basic harness. I cant say why but it is one of the feelings I can not get over so I have decided to accept it even if it costs me a little in the long run. It is a huge step jumping from beat up rental SP jackets with Air 2's to BP/W and D1 HOG reg sets. From what I have read it is the right choice.

Thanks for your advice I will get the stuff coming. I will do some more tank research as I will not be buying anything till spring and we can/want to do local dives again. The couple dives we have planned before then will have to be rental tanks.