For reason that is outside of the topic here, I am a STA user. I have had used STA from 3 manufactures: DiveRite, Deep Outdoor, Halcyon. I haven't been 100% satisfied with any of these. The main issue is the relative postion of the cam slot on the STA with respect to the bolt holes, specifically the top bolt hose, and also with respect the the cam slots on the backplate.
First, Deepoutdoor vs Halcyon. Also the DR for reference
126535
Left is DOD, right is H. Notice the slot is higher on the H by about half of the width of the band, so about 1 inch.
126529
DR version. If you pay attention to the bolt location vs the cam slot location, the cam band will be another 1 inches higher than the H.
Now, STA mounted on backplate (H standard size).
126533126532
DOD STA on plate plate. Left picture is the top, righ is the bottom. Notice the band on the STA is still higher than the slots on the plate, by half inch. DOD STA maintain the 11 inches separation between top and bottom slots, makes the STA very long. As you can see, the bottom extended belong the bottom of the plate.
H STA on H plate. You get the idea. You can imagine the DR STA will make the camband even higher.
126534
Most STA out there are cut like DR's. The issue is this kind of STA makes the tank sit ~2.5 inches higher than without one. For smaller divers, this is way too high. It means head hitting first stage. Very uncomfirtable dive. Halcyon and Hollis or similar cut are better by 0.5 inch. But DOD one are 2 inches lower. It is the best in this aspect. The only issue with DOD are it is a bit long.
I think manufactures should really think about this. I think the ideal STA would have the top slot under to match the slot on the plate, but the bottom slot line up with the bottom bolt hole. So it will allow divers to mount their tank NOT any higher than without STA.
I think DOD almost had it perfect except when diving with short tanks like HP80. H is also close, but I wish they can shift the slots to one side by 1.5 inches.
Just random vent on Sunday morning
skankpile
June 10th, 2012, 03:37 PM
I kinda had a similar issue.
Use the DR stab plates (http://www.diverite.com/products/catalog/backplatesandharnesses/bc2084) and then just run the strap through the plate if you want to use your current plate.
The DSS system does not use an STA, and the golem gear stream plate (http://www.golemgear.com/p-243-golem-stream-backplate.aspx) may also be worth looking into as it is different design needing no sta.
scubafanatic
June 10th, 2012, 03:44 PM
I own/used/use DOD, DR and Oxycheq STA's. DOD has been out-of-business for a few years now. my main issue with DOD is the welded bolts, a fixed bolt length became annoying when trying to 'mix' a DOD STA with gear from other companies that are still in business, so now I'm using Oxycheq STA on all my units instead.
GillScales
June 10th, 2012, 03:49 PM
You could also buy a drill and put the holes where you like them.
eelnoraa
June 10th, 2012, 03:54 PM
I am aware of many system out there allow single tank diving without STA, but like I said, I chose to use STA for some other reasons, like I want to be able to switch between single and double without redoing can bands, etc. As for thread the band through the plate instead of the STA, this defeat the purpose of STA.
I kinda had a similar issue.
Use the DR stab plates (http://www.diverite.com/products/catalog/backplatesandharnesses/bc2084) and then just run the strap through the plate if you want to use your current plate.
The DSS system does not use an STA, and the golem gear stream plate (http://www.golemgear.com/p-243-golem-stream-backplate.aspx) may also be worth looking into as it is different design needing no sta.
I am with you here although I haven't had real issue with the welded bolts yet. Like I said, I think DOD almost had it perfect, if they made it shorter and use standard bolt kits. But I do wonder, why no one makes it right. It is a very simple observation.
I own/used/use DOD, DR and Oxycheq STA's. DOD has been out-of-business for a few years now. my main issue with DOD is the welded bolts, a fixed bolt length became annoying when trying to 'mix' a DOD STA with gear from other companies that are still in business, so now I'm using Oxycheq STA on all my units instead.
eelnoraa
June 10th, 2012, 04:49 PM
You could also buy a drill and put the holes where you like them.
No you can't. Take the DR sta for example, where will you drill holes to lower the slots to match the plate.
You can probably cut another set of slots, but that is not something everyone can do at home easily.
CT Sean
June 10th, 2012, 04:56 PM
You could also buy a drill and put the holes where you like them.
This is what I did with an OMS - drill and an angle grinder - cut two new slots starting an inch below the bottom of the original slot - effectively lower the top tank strap by 3 inches.
decompression
June 10th, 2012, 05:01 PM
UTD's STA has 4 different slots for the cam bands, gives far more options.
CT Sean
June 10th, 2012, 05:04 PM
No you can't. Take the DR sta for example, where will you drill holes to lower the slots to match the plate.
At least in theory you could elongate the DR slot - I would think it's pretty unlikely that the strap would slide up since that would require the bottom strap to be loose (and even if it was I doubt it would slide). Personally I don't see a need to have the upper slots match - plate to STA - only that the STA slot be equal to or less that the same level as the plate slot.
eelnoraa
June 10th, 2012, 05:49 PM
I know we can do all the alternation, but why no manufactures notice the unreasonable design here is my question
halocline
June 10th, 2012, 06:42 PM
They should just have slots run the entire length of the STA so you can put the bands wherever you want. It would not be that difficult.
Aqua-Andy
June 10th, 2012, 07:28 PM
They should just have slots run the entire length of the STA so you can put the bands wherever you want. It would not be that difficult.
Sounds good in theory but then the straps would slip to the bottom of the STA and would be a pain to attach the tank.
scubafanatic
June 10th, 2012, 08:14 PM
I know we can do all the alternation, but why no manufactures notice the unreasonable design here is my question
Well, don't be too hard on scuba gear manufacturers, we've only been able to scuba for the last 50 - 60 yrs or so, moreover, an STA represents pretty advanced technology (involving 'stealth' coatings and dilithium crystals) so it's unreasonable to expect them to have perfected such an exotic concept with only a half century of experience.
mahjong
June 10th, 2012, 09:00 PM
126558The STA's that best address this problem offer 3 sets of cam slots. The shortest one overall that I have found that also has 3 sets of cam slots is the Agir-Brokk (see pic). This STA is 11 13/16" long. As you can see, those cam slots allow for very close cam band placement, so you can mount your tank any way you wish.
I use the Oxycheq weighted STA, which is longer overall (13") but still provides 3 sets of cam slots, so tank height adjustment is no problem.
halocline
June 11th, 2012, 10:19 PM
Sounds good in theory but then the straps would slip to the bottom of the STA and would be a pain to attach the tank.
Sorry, i didn't mean one long slot, I meant a series of slots right next to each other.
buddhasummer
June 12th, 2012, 12:21 AM
For reason that is outside of the topic here, I am a STA user. I have had used STA from 3 manufactures: DiveRite, Deep Outdoor, Halcyon. I haven't been 100% satisfied with any of these. The main issue is the relative postion of the cam slot on the STA with respect to the bolt holes, specifically the top bolt hose, and also with respect the the cam slots on the backplate.
First, Deepoutdoor vs Halcyon. Also the DR for reference
126535
Left is DOD, right is H. Notice the slot is higher on the H by about half of the width of the band, so about 1 inch.
126529
DR version. If you pay attention to the bolt location vs the cam slot location, the cam band will be another 1 inches higher than the H.
Now, STA mounted on backplate (H standard size).
126533126532
DOD STA on plate plate. Left picture is the top, righ is the bottom. Notice the band on the STA is still higher than the slots on the plate, by half inch. DOD STA maintain the 11 inches separation between top and bottom slots, makes the STA very long. As you can see, the bottom extended belong the bottom of the plate.
H STA on H plate. You get the idea. You can imagine the DR STA will make the camband even higher.
126534
Most STA out there are cut like DR's. The issue is this kind of STA makes the tank sit ~2.5 inches higher than without one. For smaller divers, this is way too high. It means head hitting first stage. Very uncomfirtable dive. Halcyon and Hollis or similar cut are better by 0.5 inch. But DOD one are 2 inches lower. It is the best in this aspect. The only issue with DOD are it is a bit long.
I think manufactures should really think about this. I think the ideal STA would have the top slot under to match the slot on the plate, but the bottom slot line up with the bottom bolt hole. So it will allow divers to mount their tank NOT any higher than without STA.
I think DOD almost had it perfect except when diving with short tanks like HP80. H is also close, but I wish they can shift the slots to one side by 1.5 inches.
Just random vent on Sunday morning
Totally agree, I have used DR, Halcyon and Hollis STAs. I ended up cutting two more slots in my DR plate (Nemrod mod) I now use AGIR STAs which have two pairs of slots in the top which has solved my tank positioning issues. They were not cheap but fit my needs so worth it to me.
**sorry, late to the party just realized someone else has already mentioned AGIR STAs. (post#14)
WeldonDowd
June 12th, 2012, 12:30 AM
Cut the sta in half and put the two parts anywhere you want. Might have to shorten each one a little as well. I use to use a hammerhead plate that came with a two piece sta that could be put anywhere you wanted, after you drilled holes in your plate of course, which is no big deal. Modifications are sometimes the only solution.
Peter_C
June 12th, 2012, 01:36 AM
I know we can do all the alternation, but why no manufactures notice the unreasonable design here is my question
No need to alter anything, just make it from scrap! Then you can set it up anyway you want.
I have something like an STA on one of my plates, that has lead poured in it. Total cost was around $4.00, and I had some leftovers that got re-purposed.
eelnoraa
June 12th, 2012, 01:50 AM
Peter, can you show some pictures? I would like to make one
Peter_C
June 12th, 2012, 03:01 AM
Peter, can you show some pictures? I would like to make one
Do you have the equipment for fabrication? Most anything can be made with a saw, a drill, a few files, and some simple hand tools, but I must admit a plasma cutter, couple of grinders, and a belt sander do make it much easier.
Photos from this thread, although you might not be able to see it without opting in.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/solo-divers/370472-fish.html
I ended up making one with the upper slots below the top bolt hole.
I've since went with DSS STA-less single tank rigs.
That AGIR one pictured above seems to be the way to go if you want a STA design.126651
-Mitch
cbrich
June 12th, 2012, 02:21 PM
What is the problem? All I see is different companies making a product that looks the same. Are you basing the height of the tank on the cam bands?? For me I base the height of the cylinder per the top bolt hole, as this will keep the valve in the same horizontal plane as my doubles. My OMS STA has the top cam band over the top bolt, just where I like it because my double bands are in the same position. All I do is put the cam bands about a 1/2" under the start of the cylinder shoulder.
eelnoraa
June 12th, 2012, 02:45 PM
I have no permission. how can I fix it?
Do you have the equipment for fabrication? Most anything can be made with a saw, a drill, a few files, and some simple hand tools, but I must admit a plasma cutter, couple of grinders, and a belt sander do make it much easier.
Photos from this thread, although you might not be able to see it without opting in.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/solo-divers/370472-fish.html
The problem is if you place the tank at the same height, with repect to the plate for double and single, the single tank can be too high. Think about it, in double, you have no first stage behind your head. The manifold is also lower compare to the tank value. You head has more room to "look up". With single tank, the valve + first stage reduce head room. But again, this may not be a problem for all divers. For some, it can be a hugh difference. I suspect this is especially a problem for smaller divers.
What is the problem? All I see is different companies making a product that looks the same. Are you basing the height of the tank on the cam bands?? For me I base the height of the cylinder per the top bolt hole, as this will keep the valve in the same horizontal plane as my doubles. My OMS STA has the top cam band over the top bolt, just where I like it because my double bands are in the same position. All I do is put the cam bands about a 1/2" under the start of the cylinder shoulder.
