Drills and exercises to stop knees dropping

WhiteSands · Dec 21, 2013

I'm trying to help my buddy improve her posture. Noticed that she drops her knees constantly when still, frog kicking, helicopter kicking etc and its doing bad things to her trim. She cannot back kick effectively also because of this.

I've reminded her to thrust her hips out and to feel a stretch on the front of the quads. I've used my GoPro to take videos to show her where she's dropping her knees. But I have not been very successful, and she does want to improve.

We've worked at it in the pool and I believe her rig is balanced. She is able to balance motionless in trim and hold it there. In the pool.

But once we go diving, she starts to drop her knees again and starts to "seahorse".

What drills or exercises on land and in water can we work on to help her improve this aspect?

Cyprian · Dec 21, 2013

In water, have her hold a reel or something similar between her knees when working on the flutter and mod flutter. If she drops her knees, she will drop the reel.

Good luck!

Michael Guerrero · Dec 21, 2013

Clenching butt cheeks seems to raise my knees. And making sure my lower back is slightly contracted.

If you mean exercises like in the gym, squats and back extensions maybe?

TSandM · Dec 21, 2013

There are a number of possibilities. One is habit -- habits are HARD to change. Once something feels comfortable one way, doing it another is very difficult. It might help for you to develop a "knees dropped" hand signal that you can use to remind her when you note she has let this go.

Be sure her open water gear is balanced. If, for example, she's tending to go head-down/feet-up, she may be dropping her knees to help rotate her head up.

If everything is properly balanced and adjusted, have her swim very close to the bottom. (This works best in a pool.) Then, when she drops the knees in the reload phase (which I assume is where she is doing it, because it's where most people do) she'll slam her knees into the bottom and get great feedback.

WhiteSands · Dec 22, 2013

Michael Guerrero:
Clenching butt cheeks seems to raise my knees. And making sure my lower back is slightly contracted.

If you mean exercises like in the gym, squats and back extensions maybe?

More like specific exercises to address this, with negative immediate feedback if possible.

---------- Post added December 22nd, 2013 at 01:05 PM ----------

TSandM:
There are a number of possibilities. One is habit -- habits are HARD to change. Once something feels comfortable one way, doing it another is very difficult. It might help for you to develop a "knees dropped" hand signal that you can use to remind her when you note she has let this go.

Be sure her open water gear is balanced. If, for example, she's tending to go head-down/feet-up, she may be dropping her knees to help rotate her head up.

If everything is properly balanced and adjusted, have her swim very close to the bottom. (This works best in a pool.) Then, when she drops the knees in the reload phase (which I assume is where she is going it, because it's where most people do) she'll slam her knees into the bottom and get great feedback.

good tips, thank you. Her rig seems balanced. We spent an evening at the pool moving weights around to address this.

She has more of a leg down head up problem.

The pool tip sounds good, but will be very costly. If you have more ideas of land based exercises please let me know. Thanks!

Michael Guerrero · Dec 22, 2013

get some long wood dowels and attach them to her from chest to thigh. Get in shallow water and have her do her thing. She will immediately feel a drop in knees as pressure on the chest. instant feedback.

PeterNBiddle · Dec 22, 2013

How's her buoyancy? Can she hover well?

If she can hover have her do "nap of the earth" diving where she's 6 inches or less off the bottom. She won't be able to drop her knees without touching, which will give her instant feedback.

(Do this somewhere she won't damage by touching, obv.)

Imla · Dec 22, 2013

This might be a sight that she is front heavy. To get the rest of her body in trim, she might be dropping knees to avoid "tipping over".
Have her stretch her legs out, clench her buttcheaks, keep her arms in front and paralell to head (Ie clench shoulderblades together)
And you might want to move some weights to lower camband.

TSandM · Dec 22, 2013

You can practice tightening the buttocks to lift the knees off the ground while lying prone, but it's difficult and very fatiguing, because unlike while diving, your muscles are having to support the entire weight of the leg against gravity. Doing it briefly does identify the correct muscles, if the person is unable to understand how to make the correction in the water. It's VERY difficult to practice the kicks for very long, for the same reason.

The image that works for me in the water is to think of making myself as absolutely LONG from shoulders to knees as I can. Rather than focus on lifting the knees (which tends to make me hyperextend my low back and get back pain) I think about elongating, especially during the reload phase of the kick.

WhiteSands · Dec 22, 2013

PeterNBiddle:
How's her buoyancy? Can she hover well?

If she can hover have her do "nap of the earth" diving where she's 6 inches or less off the bottom. She won't be able to drop her knees without touching, which will give her instant feedback.

(Do this somewhere she won't damage by touching, obv.)

It's passable but still needs work. There are occasions where she uses a finger to prevent touching the bottom (slow/late adjustment of BCD) and not very consistent with holding stops.

---------- Post added December 23rd, 2013 at 12:05 PM ----------

Imla:
This might be a sight that she is front heavy. To get the rest of her body in trim, she might be dropping knees to avoid "tipping over".
Have her stretch her legs out, clench her buttcheaks, keep her arms in front and paralell to head (Ie clench shoulderblades together)
And you might want to move some weights to lower camband.

Thanks, will try it out.

I believe she is feet heavy, as she has a problem getting in proper trim, and tends to "seahorse".

We had to move weights to the upper camband, and use neutrally buoyant fins to help. I think the weight balance is ok now, just need to work on the posture. She can swim in good trim in the pool when we're practicing, but in the sea, the bad habits come back and the knees drop again when she's not concentrating.

Drills and exercises to stop knees dropping

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