Counting strikes: One, two, two, two . . .

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TSandM

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I had what I actually think was a fairly funny experience yesterday, and I thought it would make a good thread. I'm going to post about a dive I did, and I'm going to post in stages. After each stage, I'd like to hear whether you would have continued the dive or aborted it. (BTW, nothing bad happened.)

Some information on me: Diving 9 years, over a thousand dives, tech and cave certs, DM regularly for OW classes. The dive site is a benign site, commonly used for training, and well known to me. Weather and water conditions were excellent, apart from viz, which was about ten feet, something to which I am quite accustomed.

Stage 1: A friend from work has been talking to me for a while about going diving together. He has been certified a while, but primarily dives on vacation. He got certified in Puget Sound. He owns all his own equipment. He hasn't dived in a while (months) and wants to get his gear into the water prior to an upcoming tropical trip. Would you set up this dive?

I obviously agreed to do it. We meet at the dive site, go through a site briefing, because he has not been here before. The day looks great. My friend has told me he has his own, steel tank with air in it (which is fine) and his own 7 mil wetsuit which he has used in the Sound before. He has his own weights.

Our cars are a little ways apart, due to the availability of spaces. We each gear up. I am a little ahead of him and the day is sunny and warm, so I yell over that I am going to walk down to the water and cool off. I do so, which involves a little walk to the stairs and a longer walk and wade out to where water is deep enough to take over some of the weight. At this point, I became acutely aware that my dry suit zipper is not closed. (It turns out that I had caught the wire for my heater in the zipper.). Although I back up quickly, I get enough water in my suit that both of my legs are somewhat wet. Would you go on to dive?

My buddy arrives, and we fix the zipper problem. We then start a gear check. He is a little flummoxed by the head-to-toe way I do them, but goes along. I ask him to check his primary reg, and I notice something odd -- it's coming over his LEFT shoulder. I look at his first stage, and yes, the hoses are set up that way. I look at the second stage, and no, it's not one of the ones you can route from either side, so it's upside-down. I point this out to him. He does not have the reg on wrong -- the hoses are installed incorrectly. We conclude he can dive while breathing his backup reg (which is on the right) and I figure out a way to secure the primary reg so it doesn't dangle. We fix a couple of other, minor issues of stuff being twisted or tangled, and all is good. Would you go on from here?

Further down the check, we discover he has 2200 psi in his tank. He has told me it's an HP100, which would be about 66 cf of gas, but he now maintains the tank is full at 2400. Bottom line, he doesn't know what size tank he has, but the likelihood is high that whatever it is, it isn't full. (Dive plan just got shallower.). Do you go on?

We finish checks and swim out to the drop point. We then discover he can't sink. I have him remove one of the 3 pound weights I carry on my cambands. He still can't sink. He takes the OTHER 3 lb weight. I am now committed to doing the dive totally shrink-wrapped (and I'm wishing I'd brought a bigger tank with extra gas in it to help me sink!). Do you continue?

We descend down a long line that ends deeper than I thought it did, at around 45 feet. At the bottom, I give him the "okay" signal, and he doesn't respond. When I give it twice more, he eventually tells me his pressure, which is now down to 1800 psi. Dive plan just got WAY shallower, and we head upslope. We end up doing a nice 20 minute dive -- he's actually a very reliable buddy, stays with me, enjoys the two GPOs we found, plays with the Dungeness crabs, and at 20 minutes (in about six feet of water) he can't stay down any more and signals thumbs.

I thought at the time that the risk-assessment process I went through while figuring all of this out was amusing. It was definitely colored by the fact that my friend had driven two hours to the dive site, and I had driven one. I wasn't eager to call this dive!

(BTW -- on debrief, it turns out that my friend had no idea how much weight he needed for Puget Sound. He had never used more than 14 pounds in the tropics, so that's what he had brought. His tank is an Al80 (which wasn't obvious in water, because it was not colored, and had a boot on it). His BC was a Zeagle of some sort with a 65 pound doubles wing on it, which the dive shop sold him because he'd be able to use it no matter what kind of diving he eventually decided to do :eek: He's a good guy; I will dive with him again, but we'll work out the weighting issues beforehand!)
 
Stage 1: A friend from work has been talking to me for a while about going diving together. He has been certified a while, but primarily dives on vacation. He got certified in Puget Sound. He owns all his own equipment. He hasn't dived in a while (months) and wants to get his gear into the water prior to an upcoming tropical trip. Would you set up this dive?

Sure. Benign site. He did the right thing, wanting to get in the water after some time without diving, before going on a trip.

At this point, I became acutely aware that my dry suit zipper is not closed. (It turns out that I had caught the wire for my heater in the zipper.). Although I back up quickly, I get enough water in my suit that both of my legs are somewhat wet. Would you go on to dive?

Depends on how wet I was and the water temperature. You weren't doing any dive that required you to stay in the water an X amount of time, so you could always come up when cold.

My buddy arrives, and we fix the zipper problem. We then start a gear check. He is a little flummoxed by the head-to-toe way I do them, but goes along. I ask him to check his primary reg, and I notice something odd -- it's coming over his LEFT shoulder. I look at his first stage, and yes, the hoses are set up that way. I look at the second stage, and no, it's not one of the ones you can route from either side, so it's upside-down. I point this out to him. He does not have the reg on wrong -- the hoses are installed incorrectly. We conclude he can dive while breathing his backup reg (which is on the right) and I figure out a way to secure the primary reg so it doesn't dangle. We fix a couple of other, minor issues of stuff being twisted or tangled, and all is good. Would you go on from here?

I have seen similar setup, but not for the primary reg, with the secondary coming from the left to facilitate sharing and swimming while sharing.
I wouldn't be happy with the way he had his gear, not just because of how it was, but more because of it meaning he didn't understand how things should be and why. Maybe I'd change it before diving... but walking all the way up, taking off gear, etc would probably make me think twice.

We finish checks and swim out to the drop point. We then discover he can't sink. I have him remove one of the 3 pound weights I carry on my cambands. He still can't sink. He takes the OTHER 3 lb weight. I am now committed to doing the dive totally shrink-wrapped (and I'm wishing I'd brought a bigger tank with extra gas in it to help me sink!). Do you continue?

If I knew I would need that weight I wouldn't. And I guess you don't dive overweight so you'd need it later.

Skipped the air part, waiting until you lot catch up with the world and use size in litres and pressure in bars :p

(BTW -- on debrief, it turns out that my friend had no idea how much weight he needed for Puget Sound. He had never used more than 14 pounds in the tropics, so that's what he had brought. His tank is an Al80 (which wasn't obvious in water, because it was not colored, and had a boot on it). His BC was a Zeagle of some sort with a 65 pound doubles wing on it, which the dive shop sold him because he'd be able to use it no matter what kind of diving he eventually decided to do :eek: He's a good guy; I will dive with him again, but we'll work out the weighting issues beforehand!)

Log books are good for keeping track of these things! And all these problems show it was a good idea to attempt a dive to refresh some things. Maybe some more talking before gearing up would have been good. You knew he had dived abroad and now the conditions were different... just mention those aspects which will be different to see if he is aware and has acted accordingly.
 
Short answer is no -- I would have called the dive (at least I hope I would have). There were just too many real, and potential, problems. OTOH, I also know that this is a benign (now THAT's a loaded word for a dive site!) site and you were well aware of how you dive solo when with a student (as it really was the case here).

Not because of your issues (flooded suit) would I have called it but because his gear was so badly set up.

BTW -- I am SO glad I opted NOT to go with you and stayed home and enjoyed the day by myself!
 
I would have done the dive.

I would have fixed his mis-assembled reg before we dove. My tools are in my car.

I would have given him the extra couple pounds I usually carry with unknown buddies. If that was not enough, it would have been another trip back to my car for extra weights (next to the tools).

Next time, I'd be busy.
 
It was definitely colored by the fact that my friend had driven two hours to the dive site, and I had driven one. I wasn't eager to call this dive!
As I was reading the post, I was wondering about something just like this. Irrespective of what we say we will do, of how objective we say we are, such a situation definitely has a strong influence, that encourages us to go ahead. In hindsight, you did the right thing - the dive turned out OK, your friend accomplished his goal of getting his wet, AND got a heads up on several things to address before the trip to the tropics. Of course, if something bad had happened, it would also be just as easy to say, 'In hindsight you did the wrong thing, and there were numerous opportunities to call the dive along the way.'
He has been certified a while, but primarily dives on vacation. . . . He owns all his own equipment. He hasn't dived in a while (months) and wants to get his gear into the water prior to an upcoming tropical trip. Would you set up this dive?{/quote]Yes. makes sense to help out a less experienced, less current diver.
At this point, I became acutely aware that my dry suit zipper is not closed. (It turns out that I had caught the wire for my heater in the zipper.). Although I back up quickly, I get enough water in my suit that both of my legs are somewhat wet. Would you go on to dive?
Probably. I can tolerate a wet undergarment for a while. This is usually not a dive-ender for me, if I am diving recreationally, and can call the dive at any point.
I ask him to check his primary reg, and I notice something odd -- it's coming over his LEFT shoulder. I look at his first stage, and yes, the hoses are set up that way. I look at the second stage, and no, it's not one of the ones you can route from either side, so it's upside-down. I point this out to him. He does not have the reg on wrong -- the hoses are installed incorrectly. We conclude he can dive while breathing his backup reg (which is on the right) and I figure out a way to secure the primary reg so it doesn't dangle. We fix a couple of other, minor issues of stuff being twisted or tangled, and all is good. Would you go on from here?
No. At this point I would have said, 'Let's get out of the water, and take a break, fix the hoses, and let me look over your equipment before we get back in.' I would not have gone in with him, not so much because I would have been in danger myself, but because I didn't want to facilitate a Murphy Moment coming up during the dive. I wouldn't feel comfortable being his buddy, without a more thorough assessment, on shore.
Further down the check, we discover he has 2200 psi in his tank. He has told me it's an HP100, which would be about 66 cf of gas, but he now maintains the tank is full at 2400. Bottom line, he doesn't know what size tank he has, but the likelihood is high that whatever it is, it isn't full. (Dive plan just got shallower.). Do you go on?
Yes. Ideally, I would have used the break, above, to look at his cylinder, so that I knew what he was diving, and what to expect in terms of his gas supply.
We finish checks and swim out to the drop point. We then discover he can't sink. I have him remove one of the 3 pound weights I carry on my cambands. He still can't sink. He takes the OTHER 3 lb weight. I am now committed to doing the dive totally shrink-wrapped (and I'm wishing I'd brought a bigger tank with extra gas in it to help me sink!). Do you continue?
I am presuming this means neither of you brought any extra weight. It certainly sounds from your description that he didn't. I would have continued at that point. Heck, after going though everything else, why not? When he can no longer stay down, you end the dive, as you did.
His BC was a Zeagle of some sort with a 65 pound doubles wing on it, which the dive shop sold him because he'd be able to use it no matter what kind of diving he eventually decided to do
So, is / has this guy (been) taking the 65lb doubles wing to the tropics to dive warm water with an AL80? I want to presume he rents equipment when he travels, but the fact that he wanted to get his gear wet before the trip suggests he doesn't. Has he been taking his reg, configured in such a, um, 'creative' way, to the tropics before? The statement 'wants to get his gear into the water prior to an upcoming tropical trip' makes me wonder.
 
I CAN dive without the six pounds. It requires being shrink-wrapped to a not very comfortable degree, and also that I don't empty my tank. I had a very shrewd suspicion that this dive would be short (had it before I got to the dive site), which is why I brought the small tank in the first place. Our 20 minute dive took 500 psi out of my supply.

Colliam, I don't have answers to your questions. He owns this gear, and it sounds as though he has owned it for some time, and it's clear it was the first gear he bought, because he said, "I asked the dive shop to recommend something that would work if I wanted to go on to more involved diving with heavier gear.".

I do not know how the regulator got set up the way it was.
 
sounds like a great training / check out dive.............you'll have more fun next time.
 
It was definitely colored by the fact that my friend had driven two hours to the dive site, and I had driven one. I wasn't eager to call this dive!
As I was reading the post, I was wondering about something just like this. Irrespective of what we say we will do, of how objective we say we are, such a situation definitely has a strong influence, that encourages us to go ahead. So, even if we say we would not have continued, who knows what WE would have done in YOUR situation? :)

In hindsight, you did the right thing - the dive turned out OK, your friend accomplished his goal of getting his wet, AND got a heads up on several things to address before the trip to the tropics. Of course, if something bad had happened, it would also be just as easy to say, 'In hindsight you did the wrong thing, and there were numerous opportunities to call the dive along the way.'
He has been certified a while, but primarily dives on vacation. . . . He owns all his own equipment. He hasn't dived in a while (months) and wants to get his gear into the water prior to an upcoming tropical trip. Would you set up this dive?
Yes. makes sense to help out a less experienced, less current diver.
At this point, I became acutely aware that my dry suit zipper is not closed. (It turns out that I had caught the wire for my heater in the zipper.). Although I back up quickly, I get enough water in my suit that both of my legs are somewhat wet. Would you go on to dive?
Probably. I can tolerate a wet undergarment for a while. This is usually not a dive-ender for me, if I am diving recreationally, and can call the dive at any point.
I ask him to check his primary reg, and I notice something odd -- it's coming over his LEFT shoulder. I look at his first stage, and yes, the hoses are set up that way. I look at the second stage, and no, it's not one of the ones you can route from either side, so it's upside-down. I point this out to him. He does not have the reg on wrong -- the hoses are installed incorrectly. We conclude he can dive while breathing his backup reg (which is on the right) and I figure out a way to secure the primary reg so it doesn't dangle. We fix a couple of other, minor issues of stuff being twisted or tangled, and all is good. Would you go on from here?
No. At this point I would have said, 'Let's get out of the water, and take a break, fix the hoses, and let me look over your equipment before we get back in.' I would not have gone in with him, not so much because I would have been in danger myself, but because I didn't want to facilitate a Murphy Moment coming up during the dive. I wouldn't feel comfortable being his buddy, without a more thorough assessment, on shore.
Further down the check, we discover he has 2200 psi in his tank. He has told me it's an HP100, which would be about 66 cf of gas, but he now maintains the tank is full at 2400. Bottom line, he doesn't know what size tank he has, but the likelihood is high that whatever it is, it isn't full. (Dive plan just got shallower.). Do you go on?
Yes. Ideally, I would have used the break, above, to look at his cylinder, so that I knew what he was diving, and what to expect in terms of his gas supply.
We finish checks and swim out to the drop point. We then discover he can't sink. I have him remove one of the 3 pound weights I carry on my cambands. He still can't sink. He takes the OTHER 3 lb weight. I am now committed to doing the dive totally shrink-wrapped (and I'm wishing I'd brought a bigger tank with extra gas in it to help me sink!). Do you continue?
I am presuming this means neither of you brought any extra weight. It certainly sounds from your description that he didn't. I would have continued at that point. Heck, after going though everything else, why not? When he can no longer stay down, you end the dive, as you did.
His BC was a Zeagle of some sort with a 65 pound doubles wing on it, which the dive shop sold him because he'd be able to use it no matter what kind of diving he eventually decided to do
So, is / has this guy (been) taking the 65lb doubles wing to the tropics to dive warm water with an AL80? I want to presume he rents equipment when he travels, but the fact that he wanted to get his gear wet before the trip suggests he doesn't. Has he been taking his reg, configured in such a, um, 'creative' way, to the tropics before? The statement 'wants to get his gear into the water prior to an upcoming tropical trip' makes me wonder.
 
Our cars are a little ways apart, due to the availability of spaces. We each gear up.

Having had a similar experience to yours, I have learned this is the snowflake that starts the avalanche. For someone that hasn't been diving in a while, I want to gear up alongside of them. It is an opportunity to look over everything without needing to ask questions, and some of the errors can be caught earlier while still dry. I have hauled my gear to the other person's location just to have this opportunity.

For all of the issues that were encountered, none of them were terribly alarming that the plan couldn't be changed on the fly.
 
I would not have called the dive, because this was a gear check dive. I might have gone back and fixed up the reg and asked him to do a weight check before getting out of the water to go back for the tools.
If I would have figured out that his tank wasn't full, I might have switched with him (of coarse this depends on what tank you have).

Also, If I was driving a couple hours to dive, I would have more than 1 tank and made sure they were full.
 
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