Boat ladder/hull danger

Yesterday I did my first ocean dives. 4 foot tall waves. Took Dramamine 3 times and was still incredibly sea sick.

I'm OW certified, and just finished my Advanced with these dives.

My instructors all said if the conditions were a slight bit worse, we wouldn't have gone.

The 14 person boat was rocking and jumping up and down from the waves, and the Carolina line was tangled up in the boat ladder and ran up close to the underside of the boat. I feel like the ladder could've been a giant knife that couldve sliced my head open or the bow could've done some major damage. Is this something that's a real danger? I feel like it wasn't discussed much in our training manuals.

I don't think the Carolina line was fully weighted down and on my second dive, it was very close to the propeller too . I think visibility was 10 feet max.

If our Carolina/descent line is close to the boat, what are you supposed to do? Do people usually let go of the line and swim away from the boat and try to get back to the line? Have people gotten cut up/knocked unconscious by the ladder before?

Thanks

Sounds like some tough conditions, especially in a smaller boat. Injuries from the boat ladder and the weights on the Carolina line do happen.

Here's what I would do in this situation. If current is an issue, and you have a stop(s) to do, use the anchor line instead of the Carolina line if you need something to hang onto. The Carolina line is going to be jumping all over the place in this situation, and you will find it impossible to maintain a constant depth if you are hanging onto it. If no current, do your stop(s) mid water with the line as a visual reference. When you are ready to go to the surface, bypass the Carolina line and head for the tag line (the one being trailed behind the boat), while staying away from the hull and any other dangers.

Grab onto the tag line and move to about 10 feet or so from the stern. Take your fins off and put them on your wrists. Do this so if you lose the ladder or the line, you can put them back on and kick back to the line. Putting fins on the wrists also minimizes the time you need to spend on the ladder if you don't have to mess with removing your fins. I try to time my contact with the ladder so it is coming upwards when I grab it. The ladder tends to kick outward when the boat is pitching downward. It helps if a crew member is putting some weight on the ladder. Grab the ladder and put your body weight on it fast. Time your movement on the ladder so it is in sync with the movement of the boat. Keep your reg in and get onboard and move the hell out of the way so the next person can get on and you don't fall back in on them.

When you go for the ladder, keep your hands and arms out in front of you. Oftentimes the water gets churned up by the movement of the ladder, and all the bubbles can obscure the ladder. I'd rather hit the ladder with an arm versus my face.

In my experience, if the captain says something like "if it was any worse, we wouldn't go out", I'm inclined to skip the dive unless there is something really great to see. The ride out and back are not going to be fun and you risk injury and gear damage getting back onboard.

elubes:

Yesterday I did my first ocean dives. 4 foot tall waves. Took Dramamine 3 times and was still incredibly sea sick.

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Forget Dramamine, try this: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ad...easickness-prevention-update.html#post7137227

elubes:

I'm OW certified, and just finished my Advanced with these dives.

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Congratulations, you earned yours. Don't quit here.

elubes:

My instructors all said if the conditions were a slight bit worse, we wouldn't have gone.

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Accurate. Unfortunately these conditions are common, makes one really appreciate a calm day with decent viz.

elubes:

I feel like the ladder could've been a giant knife that couldve sliced my head open or the bow could've done some major damage. Is this something that's a real danger? I feel like it wasn't discussed much in our training manuals.

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Whatever you do, don't take the 'Boat Course' up here. They go over all this very slowly and in detail so you can remember it. That and much more, but it is SB common knowledge that the Boat Specialty course is a complete waste of money. There is a safe way to navigate the deck, address the ladder, avoid weights and sliding shackles, what not to hold on to at the tie-in. Nevermind, you can figure it out. Just read the book...

Ignore the sarcasm, it isn't meant for you.

elubes:

I don't think the Carolina line was fully weighted down and on my second dive, it was very close to the propeller too .

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Quick search on your LDS and I'm pretty sure I know the boat you were on. A good one. Safe. There used to be a big stainless steel weight at about 20' on the down line that you grab when you splash. That thing could hammer you senseless in rough water. Looks like the steel slug was replaced with a bunch of soft weights, maybe need a few more. Don't sweat the prop, just stay prudently clear of it, this isn't a live boat.

elubes:

If our Carolina/descent line is close to the boat, what are you supposed to do? Do people usually let go of the line and swim away from the boat and try to get back to the line?

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No, get slightly negative as soon as you can and everything starts to get much better. Just make damn sure that you are solidly on the down line before you go negative.

elubes:

Have people gotten cut up/knocked unconscious by the ladder before?

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There are two SB members that are going to bust a gut when they read that question. Has to do with my momentary inattention and a rib. Short answer, yes.

elubes:

Thanks

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Most welcome, don't give up, it actually gets to be a lot of fun...

---------- Post added June 16th, 2014 at 02:58 AM ----------

Rand:

... Take your fins off and put them on your wrists. Do this so if you lose the ladder or the line, you can put them back on and kick back to the line. ...

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Better clear this with the captain before you actually try it.

lowviz:

Better clear this with the captain before you actually try it.

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Actually a good point. While what I suggested is how I do things, every boat should have a briefing that includes procedures to get back on board. The captain/crew knows what works best for their boat and I'd defer to how they tell you to do things, in most cases.

Carolina lines vary. On the boat I usually dive the horizontal line is actually a long steel pipe. It is more stable then the rope between two weights and does not get tangled up.

elubes:

Is this something that's a real danger?

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Think of it like this. I don't know how much your boat weighs but say it weighs 2 tons. When it's bobbing up and down in 4ft swells, that turns the ladder into a 2 ton sledgehammer being swung on a 4ft handle.

so yeah, don't get under it.

Have people gotten cut up/knocked unconscious by the ladder before?

Thanks

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I feel off of one once. We used to dive in the North Sea on the boat in this picture (see below). The distance from the deck to the water was about 3 metres and the ladder came off the side. No lift. we had to climb 3 metres from the water to the deck wearing 50-60kg in gear. Often in other than calm seas.

The day of the incident the boat was anchored above the wreck we were diving and when I surfaced after the dive it was rocking back and forth almost to the point that you could look onto the deck when the boat rolled toward you. that meant that the ladder was almost entirely submerged at its furthest point. I decided to grab the ladder when it was all the way into the water to save myself climbing up it while being plunged repeatedly back into the water again.

So the boat rocked and I grabbed the ladder and away I went. I was yanked out of the water and suddenly found myself at least 3 metres above the water level with a no-go-good grip on the ladder and I couldn't get a foot onto a rung. It was too heavy and I couldn't hold on. We were told if you thought you were going to fall to push off and land back in the water tanks first so you didn't get hit by the ladder but pushing back assumes you have a foot on the ladder, which I didn't and I slipped and fell before I could push.

I hit every rung of the ladder on the way down. CLANG CLANG CLANG CLANG CLANG CLANG CLANG.

Then belly flopped into the North Sea and felt an almighty KASWOOSH right beside me where the ladder plunged into the ocean as the boat rolled back. It missed me by inches.

I wasn't unconscious but I was in pain from the fall and laying face down in the water. Almost as soon as I landed two guys who were standing on deck jumped in and grabbed me and pulled me back to safe distance.

Considering how heavy that boat is, and how big that ladder was and the speed it which it was rocking back and forth, I feel very fortunate that I didn't break anything and came away with only some aches and bruises.

I don't know how other people feel about this, but to my way of thinking the boat itself is the biggest risk to boat divers.

R..

Never turn your back on a boat, that's for certain. Many of our dives have been in pitchy seas, and it is certainly true that danger is present during the reboarding process. To minimize that danger, I suggest:
don't bunch up near the ladder- wait to approach until the ladder and dive deck are clear.
don't grab the ladder or rope to the ladder until you are ready to exit.
once aboard, move away from the dive deck area immediately so the next person can board
to the extent you can, time your taking hold of the ladder wen the boat is riding high, rather than at the bottom, of a wave cycle (one less arm jerk as you prepare to board.

It can be a little hairy sometimes, but if I and my 60 something wife can do it, so can you.
DivemasterDennis

elubes:

The 14 person boat was rocking and jumping up and down from the waves, and the Carolina line was tangled up in the boat ladder and ran up close to the underside of the boat. I feel like the ladder could've been a giant knife that couldve sliced my head open or the bow could've done some major damage. Is this something that's a real danger? I feel like it wasn't discussed much in our training manuals.

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Yes, you can get killed. It's approximately the same as having the trailer hitch from a car dropped on your head, with the car still attached.

It's not really covered in OW, but should be covered in a good boat diving class, and should also have been covered by your instructor if he was teaching a class on the boat.

Also, stay away from anything that's tangled in anything else, until it's all sorted out. Lines have a magic way of wrapping around anything they get near. There are all sorts of bad things that can happen. Also make sure you always carry a good knife and shears.

flots

I have heard dive operators say that getting on and off the boat is the most dangerous part of the dive.

An unexpected/uncomfortable scenario is the best learning experience you'll get.