DIR / Hogarthian

Hello!

Can anybody explaine me the detailed differences between Hogarthian and DIR?

Thanks!

See http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=88234&highlight=Hogarthian+DIR

Here's a thread that will help define what the Hogarthian system of diving is http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=80595 DIR grew out of Hogarthian diving. Hogarthian is primarily a gear configuration, while DIR encompasses Gear, attitude, preparation, teamwork, lifestyle... it's a "holistic" diving philosophy.

So while both systems embrace the backplate/wing and donating the primary regulator on a 7' hose, a Hogarthian diver could also be a solo diver (though why you'd be breathing off a 7' longhose beats me in that situation), but a DIR diver could not because it is contradictory to the philosophy behind DIR.

Hope that helps a bit...

It's not correct to say Hogarthian diving is primarily a gear configuration while DIR is a holistic diving philosophy. Hogarthian diving started with a minimalist philosphy that led to the hog configuration. In fact, Hogarthian diving was almost pure philosophy.

It is, in my opinion, more correct to say that DIR is a greatly expanded but more dogmatic outgrowth of hogarthianism.

Hogarthian divers were more or less independent divers loosely connected by a common minimalist approach and set of beliefs that resulted in commonly accepted standards with room for some of variation, experimentation and individual adaptation. In contrast, DIR tends to have a much more rigid and dogmatic approach where standards are set and developed by a central group and are then enculturated in other members through indoctrination and training.

Teamwork is a large part of DIR, but teamwork in the DIR sense requires near total conformity to DIR doctrine. If you deviate from the expected norm even a little, it is no longer considered "DIR". In contrast, Hogarthian philosphy relied much more on critical thinking than indoctrination and in that regard allowed a greater degree of indvidualism and a greater level of variation within the bounds of what would be considered Hog diving.

Hi PhilippeD,

DA Aquamaster is more or less right, but I think the way he puts it, it sounds to negative ;-) Yes, there generally is more variation in gear configuration in Hogarthian diving, but I don't think that has anything to do with individualism.

There are better means of expressing yourself than the way you place gear on your body. Personally, I think the advantages of knowing exactly where your buddies gear is far outweigh any perceived loss of individuality.

Think about it this way: Not being able to find your buddies octopus/knife/whatever might be the last straw, the little thing that pushes you over the edge into panic. You don't want that to happen. By having standardized gear configuration, DIR divers try to minimize that risk. That's all your gear is there for: minimizing the risk you put yourself in by going where you are not supposed to go (under water, where you can't breathe). DIR divers try to minimize risks as far as possible, so they can have fun diving without being irresponsible.

That does not, however, mean that DIR is the "ONLY" way to do it. Most DIR divers (and GUE) just think that it's "A" right way to do it. There may be others, and many DIR divers would switch to a better style of diving in a heartbeat, if they thought they had found one.

Thanks for the correction DA Aquamaster...

mstroeck - I like the way you put it ...

"That does not, however, mean that DIR is the "ONLY" way to do it. Most DIR divers (and GUE) just think that it's "A" right way to do it. There may be others, and many DIR divers would switch to a better style of diving in a heartbeat, if they thought they had found one."

Click to expand...

Tim

I like DA Aquamaster's explanation since it mirrors my own opinion. Although I strongly dislike the inference by DIR advocates that they have THE right way to dive for all purposes, locations, etc., I do like some of the principles espoused by both Hogarthian and DIR.

Dr. Bill
DIW

drbill:

I like DA Aquamaster's explanation since it mirrors my own opinion. Although I strongly dislike the inference by DIR advocates that they have THE right way to dive for all purposes, locations, etc., I do like some of the principles espoused by both Hogarthian and DIR.

Dr. Bill
DIW

Click to expand...

Bill,

If I could take a moment and make a few comments to correct a myth that I see spread all too often. We offer that our style of diving is applicable to every environment, and we say those that subscribe to our style of diving have success using the DIR style in environments such as cold water, caves, wrecks, deep, etc. etc.. As for it being "THE" right way for all purposes, I'm always amused by the many people that get so upset about the DIR slogan, when if you go to PADI's very own website, and look at their very own slogan they claim to be "'THE' way the world learns to dive", but yet I never see anyone get so similiarly upset with respect to the presumption on behalf of PADI that they are "THE" way the entire world learns to dive..

My thoughts are that it is just an excuse for people to debate rather then take the time to understand the underlying ideology. I don't see people make the leap of outrage with Dive Rite gear, because couldn't the implication be that if you aren't using Dive Rite gear, you are using Dive Wrong gear? It seems to me that you have extremists on both sides of the debate, and at the end of the day who really cares what you call it, so long as you approach your diving in the safest manner possible. If GUE chooses to call it "Doing It Right", what is the harm versus PADI declaring that they are "THE" way the world learns to dive, or Dive Rite proclaiming that their gear is "RITE" ??

Anyway, that's just my humble opinion..

Later

DA Aquamaster:

In contrast, Hogarthian philosphy relied much more on critical thinking than indoctrination and in that regard allowed a greater degree of indvidualism and a greater level of variation within the bounds of what would be considered Hog diving.

Click to expand...

I agree with much of your analysis, however I want to clarify the above point. The DIR "indoctrination", such as the term was used, isn't designed to replace critical thinking, in fact, I would argue just the opposite. We spend significant time training and working on simulated scenario's of critical thinking. Where I suspect we do differ from the Hogarthian crowd in this respect is that our solution(s) are more aligned with a team solution, whereas I suspect the Hogarthian approach is more aligned with an individual solution. It seems to me that training as a team, and developing critical skills thinking uniformly amongst a unified team, provides for a wider variety of solutions when juxtaposed against one sole individuals more limited amount of options.

So I don't think we "indoctrinate" to the exclusion of critical thinking, I believe we develop critical thinking patterns to think of your team first, and to incorporate critical thinking that provides for a wider variety of options..

Regards,

Actually, PADI takes their fair share of bashing ... and if they want to lay claim to being the ones responsible for how most of the world dives (as evidenced at tourist dive sites the world over), then they're asking to get bashed ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)