Nitrox questions

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Walt1957

Contributor
Messages
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Location
NE Maryland
# of dives
25 - 49
I have found a lot of info about nitrox, but the info I have found has caused more questions.

Question number one. Are there dangers to using nitrox other than the risk of miscalculating bottom time?

Question number two. I got a lot of good answers concerning kids and diving. Would using nitrox with the air tables at a given depth (30'-40') decrease the risks for a kid since it would decrease the nitrogen absorbtion?

Question number three. Would a dive op be likely to require proof of nitrox cert before providing a nitrox tank?

Thanks
 
Walt1957:
I have found a lot of info about nitrox, but the info I have found has caused more questions.

Question number one. Are there dangers to using nitrox other than the risk of miscalculating bottom time?

Question number two. I got a lot of good answers concerning kids and diving. Would using nitrox with the air tables at a given depth (30'-40') decrease the risks for a kid since it would decrease the nitrogen absorbtion?

Question number three. Would a dive op be likely to require proof of nitrox cert before providing a nitrox tank?

Thanks

Answer 1: yes, several
Answer 2: in Theoretically yes, practically dunno, children have different metabolism
Answer 3: yes probably

But I am not a diver trainer, so dont take my word for it.
 
Unless you fill your own tanks I doubt you'll find an established lds that will give you a Nitrox fill without proof of certification. I normally need to sign a log that says what that number is, the date and also mix I got. I've yet to find a dive shop that does otherwise although I bet there are some.

From the sound of things you're not certified for Nitrox and I would highly recommend that you get certified because there's a lot more risk than miscalculating your bottom time, death comes to mind in severe cases of mismanagement.
 
Q1: Yes....death
Q2: Some risks would increase others decrease
Q3: Any serious diveop would. If you were to find one who didn´t (and you´re uncerted) would you trust him with your or your kids life?

Get the cert...or stay on air
 
Since no one has been specific on #1, one of the dangers is that oxygen becomes toxic with depth/pressure. The higher the percentage of oxygen the shallower your gas becomes toxic. (Even regular air becomes toxic if you're deep enough, but not within recreational depths.) Sometimes people who aren't Nitrox certified think it's for "deeper" diving when in fact it's quite the opposite.
 
My LDS requires a nitrox card. I imagine most do. There are more ways to get dead with nitrox than there are with air within recreational limits, and very few shops want to be the one that killed someone. Even cynical people find the publicity unpleasant.

As Damselfish said, oxygen becomes toxic when under pressure. Also, oxygen may have a dangerous cumulative effect. Think of it like nitrogen loading - the danger may be function of the percentage of oxygen in your breathing gas, the pressure, and the amount of time at that pressure. Thus, you may have more than one time limit to track when diving, which complicates dive planning.

Also, the higher the oxygen content in a gas, the more likely that flammable materials will combust at a given temperature. This includes things like the o-rings and lubricant used in your breathing equipment. If you don't know your equipment and use gas that is too oxygen-rich for it, you could run an unacceptable risk of combustion, including potentially explosive combustion. Tank go boom.

Nitrox is mixed in the tank in a few different ways. One common way starts with pure oxygen in the tank, and then adds a gas with a known, and lower, oxygen concentration to the mix. Again, if your equipment is not O2 safe, things could get messy.

Even if it does not cause a fire, oxygen-enriched gas may react, particularly with hydrocarbons (think lubricant, again,) to produce carbon monoxide. If this happens in your tank, it is unlikely that you will detect it until you have symptoms of poisoning (which can include passing out, which is not recommended in 60 fsw).

It is technically possible to cause lung damage by breathing elevated concentrations of oxygen for a long period. You would have to work pretty hard to do it in SCUBA, I think. Also, it is possible to damage your retinas. I do not know how likely this is in SCUBA, but I think it is more likely in a hospital.

In short, nitrox can kill you in a number of ways that air is much less likely to do. Additional training is important. Because nitrogen loading is only one of many dangers in SCUBA, and because naive nitrox use introduces additional risks, it seems unlikely that the use of nitrox would decrease the net danger to your children. I will not let my son dive nitrox until he is certified to do so.
 
Walt1957:
I have found a lot of info about nitrox, but the info I have found has caused more questions.

Question number one. Are there dangers to using nitrox other than the risk of miscalculating bottom time?

Question number two. I got a lot of good answers concerning kids and diving. Would using nitrox with the air tables at a given depth (30'-40') decrease the risks for a kid since it would decrease the nitrogen absorbtion?

Question number three. Would a dive op be likely to require proof of nitrox cert before providing a nitrox tank?

Thanks

Hi Walt,

I teach the nitrox specialty, and while I wouldn't dream of trying to give you all the info from a 4 - 6 hour lecture in a quick message I will make an attempt at answering your immediate questions:

1. As previously mentioned oxygen toxicity is a major concern. Part of the classroom work includes learning the relatively simple formulas for determining the maximum depth that a given nitrox mix may be used at. Ignoring the maximum depth can quite readily turn a pleasant dive into a disaster (read: underwater convulsions leading to drowning).

2. I'm not qualified to comment on children diving nitrox.

3. A reputable dive op will require proof of nitrox certification.

While I've been quoted in the past as saying that all the useful information from a nitrox class can be printed on an 8.5x11" piece of paper, I do feel there is real value in taking the class. The cost around here is around $130 which includes several hours during which you can pick an instructors brains and a couple of check out dives. The NAUI program requires the student to do breathing rate calculations during the nitrox dives which is a useful skill by itself.

Best of luck, and if you have further questions I'll try to answer online. Please don't mistake this q&a for actual nitrox training :)
 
Thanks to all for your informative answers. An affirmative to #1 negated a need for an answer to #3, for my purposes at least. It was not a desire to avoid the expense, or time of a nitrox class. Unfortunately I have not been able to find one scheduled at any dive shop within an hour drive. And none of the articles I had found included the risks, which I suspected existed but were unstated, which was why I asked here.
 
If your dive shops around there are like those around here, ask for the class and they'll make one happen even if no one else is interested in taking it.

I've never had an issue nor have friends in getting a class they wanted if they asked for one to happen. Sometimes they'll do solo with no additional cost, sometimes they'll say wait x amount of time and if nobody else signs up we'll do it solo.
 

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