Riding marine life

[Zippsy]

I'm curious what the rest of the world thinks. Every year or so, a story comes out in the Singapore / Malaysian dive community of some divers boasting of hitching a ride on a whale shark, manta or turtle. I usually get pretty indignant and calls the morons morons. It just happened again this past weekend with some whaleshark cowboys.

But what do you think?

 

[BDSC]

I don't think riding any of the marine life is a good idea and should be avoided but I don't take things to the extreme and say "Never touch anything" either.

 

[Zieg]

I see that your poll is SLIGHTLY biased.

 

[Zippsy]

I see that your poll is SLIGHTLY biased.

only slightly? I guess that is because I was still so pissed off at the morons we let into the water over here sometimes. Gosh, I still must be pissed off.

 

[Zippsy]

I don't think riding any of the marine life is a good idea and should be avoided but I don't take things to the extreme and say "Never touch anything" either.

I can agree with that. I certainly have looked under more than a few cucumbers and pin cushion starfish looking for shrimps. Maybe I am a hypocrite but I see a difference in the gentle handling of things like that and the grabbing of a whaleshark's fin to go on a ride.

I'll admit that the wording of my poll is both poor and biased. I think it will still give me an idea of what people think though.

 

[BDSC]

Maybe I am a hypocrite but I see a difference in the gentle handling of things like that and the grabbing of a whaleshark's fin to go on a ride.

That's not being a hypocrite. That's taking a reasonable approach to the subject. A hypocrite is one who screams bloody murder when anyone touches anything......IMO.

 

[CriticalMass]

I can agree with that. I certainly have looked under more than a few cucumbers and pin cushion starfish looking for shrimps. Maybe I am a hypocrite but I see a difference in the gentle handling of things like that and the grabbing of a whaleshark's fin to go on a ride.

Actually, it sounds sorta' fun to me. And SeaWorld does that sort of thing every day.

What intrigues me is the way some people try to confer human-like emotions, mental capacity, and sensibilities to lower life forms. It's almost as if these creatures might become "offended" at being treated in such a manner, which, of course, is laughable. You can put me down on your "poll" as a write-in, "What's the Problem?".

 

[BioLogic]

Actually, it sounds sorta' fun to me. And SeaWorld does that sort of thing every day.

What intrigues me is the way some people try to confer human-like emotions, mental capacity, and sensibilities to lower life forms. It's almost as if these creatures might become "offended" at being treated in such a manner, which, of course, is laughable. You can put me down on your "poll" as a write-in, "What's the Problem?".

I find it even more interesting how people deny the possibility that animals have emotions and sensibilities. Certainly other animals don't begin to approach human mental capacity in areas such as reasoning, projecting outcomes, or abstractions. But emotions and feelings don't require such higher thought processes. Based on available evidence, emotions arise from lower regions of the brain that are perfectly well developed in animals. I have a strong suspicion that a territorial fish really is 'offended' when I infringe on its territory and it feints at me or bites me in an obvious attempt to drive me away, or that a dog is actually 'happy' when invited for a walk. If it has every appearance of an emotional reaction, why would I assume the creature feels nothing just because the creature can't do algebra?

 

[Qnape]

In our training, we were definately taught that touching, never mind riding sea life is a no-no. In our limited experience (86 dives) we have seen a variety of divers including especially DM's stretch that rule to greater and lesser degrees.

We have been with DM's who picked up certain creatures to show them to divers (sea cucumbers, shrimp, octopi, yellow line arrow crabs). In some cases this seemed very much OK to us, in others it seemed a bit intrusive. We've also observed other divers doing the same thing, including "repositioning" of sea life for the purpose of photography (I can recall this relating to seahorses, hermit crabs, and octopi). We have avoided following their example and don't touch - if we can't get a good shot of X animal, we will look for another. Please don't misunderstand, the majority of the DM's we have encountered touch nothing, and clearly guide divers not to (especially when it comes to whale sharks, mantas and sea turtles). "It depends" seems the best answer; and good judgement as to when this is OK must be employed. We have erred on the side of caution and don't touch.

In Little Cayman, we were told not to touch anything "other than the Nassua grouper, because they touch you first." IMHO, while the Nassua grouper certainly follow divers and rub against them / bump them, the practice we observed of divers then gently petting them or rubbing under their chins is not wise, and may lead to problems. We feel this may have been a factor in a bizarre experience we had when a grouper, odd as this may seem, repeatedly attacked my daughter / dive buddy. While not a dangerous situation in and of itself (very small teeth ), this could have led to panic in a truly inexperienced or jumpy diver - and that could be serious. If interested, please check out my post on the incident. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/near-misses-lessons-learned/349261-grouper-attack.html

 

[PatW]

Actually, it sounds sorta' fun to me. And SeaWorld does that sort of thing every day.

What intrigues me is the way some people try to confer human-like emotions, mental capacity, and sensibilities to lower life forms. It's almost as if these creatures might become "offended" at being treated in such a manner, which, of course, is laughable. You can put me down on your "poll" as a write-in, "What's the Problem?".

Animals at Sea World are habituated to humans and human contact. I would bet that any animal that gets upset with handling is not subjected to it at Sea World. If you work with animals, you can usually tell.

Sea World animals are like horses who are trained to be ridden. It is something they accept and are not distressed by. However, just try climbing onto a wild horse who has not had contact with humans and you might just notice a difference. The horse would find the situation traumatic and violently object.

Out in the open ocean with wild sea creatures, I pretty much use a look but don't touch policy.