Cannon S90 or G11?

[diverash]

Hi all.

I've been reading extensively on both the S90 and G11 and am undecided. I'm looking for a camera, predominantly for underwater photography. Something fast enough to be used to take spearfishing pics while being of such quality to be used for coral reef monitoring projects. It'll be a work and play camera! The G11 seems better on paper, although only slightly, but the housing (ikelite) is nearly double the price of the S90 ikelite housing. Is this huge price gap worth the extra features of the G11?

Any help on this would be hugely appreciated, I'm going silly over it.

Thanks!

 

[mfolsom]

I can't be much help because I just got mine and have only had it in the pool but I like it. It is a very easy to use camera and the housing seems almost bulletproof. The G11 takes pretty good video too. I used in during a family day cruise on CVN 77 (USS George H W Bush) for videoing F-18s taking off and doing touch and goes.

 

[Nemrod]

This, folded out:

Folded in:

Packed for travel:

You might also look at the new Oly ELP-1 or wait for the new series of EVILs next year or get the S90 now and have fun.

N

 

[slowhands]

Hi all.

I've been reading extensively on both the S90 and G11 and am undecided. I'm looking for a camera, predominantly for underwater photography. Something fast enough to be used to take spearfishing pics while being of such quality to be used for coral reef monitoring projects. It'll be a work and play camera! The G11 seems better on paper, although only slightly, but the housing (ikelite) is nearly double the price of the S90 ikelite housing. Is this huge price gap worth the extra features of the G11?

Any help on this would be hugely appreciated, I'm going silly over it.

Thanks!

You might want to search for this topic, since it comes up every week. Optically these are both amazing. I prefer the G11, but would not be unhappy with the S90. It's almost flip a coin, which is why it's easy to dither back and forth deciding.

Neither is as fast to focus as a DSLR -- they are still in the range of 0.5 second shutter lag, longer in dim light. (If you need low shutter lag, use manual focus on these, or just step up to a DSLR, but you're not going to want that spear fishing.)

Since you ask specifically about the Ikelite housing, the price difference is due entirely to the fact that the Ikelite G11 housing has extra electronics for support of an external hardwired strobe. It has a TTL converter, which takes the Canon hotshoe signals and translates them into Ikelite strobe control signals. If you don't need that, it's a waste, but if you do it's a bargain. Most people in this price range use optical fiber to connect to strobes, so this TTL converter sits idle.

For what it's worth, both of the Canon OEM housings cost even less and do the job well.

 

[diverash]

The decision is being pushed. I have a friend going to china soon and has offered to buy the equip there for half the price. I'm leaning slightly toward the S90 with the ikelite housing + tray and handle. The Sea&Sea YS27DX or similar strobe (not sure what arm). And I'd love a wide angle lens, 165mm if I can. I'm just running out of time! But its all so exciting!

If I do go G11 (which leaves room to expand in the future) i think Inon z240 strobes and a similar wide angle lens.

 

[Nemrod]

The decision is being pushed. I have a friend going to china soon and has offered to buy the equip there for half the price. I'm leaning slightly toward the S90 with the ikelite housing + tray and handle. The Sea&Sea YS27DX or similar strobe (not sure what arm). And I'd love a wide angle lens, 165mm if I can. I'm just running out of time! But its all so exciting!

If I do go G11 (which leaves room to expand in the future) i think Inon z240 strobes and a similar wide angle lens.

I hate to tell you this but the G11 is problematic with a wide angle lens and the Ikelite housing is as big as a small shoebox.

The only housing which can support real wide angle shooting with the G11 is the FIX when equipped with their dry port dome lens and it is a beauty.

The Z240 strobes will not work TTL with the Ikelite housing, I do believe that is correct. You will need to purchase Ike strobes.

Optical strobes are fine, work great. Save some money and get the S2000 or D2000.

If you plan to change lenses underwater, shoot macro, wide angle and ultra wide angle then the S90 is your only choice and that with the FIX90 housing.

N

 

[diverash]

wow. Been reading, reading and slowly making up my mind.

I'm going for the S90, Ikelite housing with tray and single handle. It seems the FIX UWL-04 fisheye wet mount conversion lens 67mm/52mm works well with the camera/housing combo. So all's left is the strobe (only going for 1 at this stage). From what I understand this setup will not work with TTL but only slave/fiber optic so why are people using TTL strobes with the S90? I've seen the S&S YS-110a and Inon D2000 with this camera. Great strobes but isn't it overkill?

What would those S90 experienced guys out there suggest?

 

[Nemrod]

wow. Been reading, reading and slowly making up my mind.

I'm going for the S90, Ikelite housing with tray and single handle. It seems the FIX UWL-04 fisheye wet mount conversion lens 67mm/52mm works well with the camera/housing combo. So all's left is the strobe (only going for 1 at this stage). From what I understand this setup will not work with TTL but only slave/fiber optic so why are people using TTL strobes with the S90? I've seen the S&S YS-110a and Inon D2000 with this camera. Great strobes but isn't it overkill?

What would those S90 experienced guys out there suggest?

You are confusing wired TTL with optical sTTL. The Inon strobes have sTTL and I believe some of the new YS strobes have the sTTL capability. It is essentially a simulated TTL features that works very well with some cameras including the S90. The Inon D/S/Z strobes with optical sync, when in the sTTL mode, mimic the camera's strobe. There is actually a little more to it but I don't feel like typing it all now. Simply, the strobes are "smart" and know what to do.

N

 

[slowhands]

I hate to tell you this but the G11 is problematic with a wide angle lens and the Ikelite housing is as big as a small shoebox.

The only housing which can support real wide angle shooting with the G11 is the FIX when equipped with their dry port dome lens and it is a beauty.

The Z240 strobes will not work TTL with the Ikelite housing, I do believe that is correct. You will need to purchase Ike strobes.

Optical strobes are fine, work great. Save some money and get the S2000 or D2000.

If you plan to change lenses underwater, shoot macro, wide angle and ultra wide angle then the S90 is your only choice and that with the FIX90 housing.

N

I can't disagree with that. For a deluxe system using a top performing point and shoot, it's a winner.

But... if you are willing to spend that much money, you might want to confirm whether the point and shoot camera is the best choice for what you want to shoot. For only a little more you could step up to a micro 4/3 camera system -- and have a much faster shooting system with better image quality and HD video. In a complete system the cost of the camera is dwarfed by the cost of accessories like housing, strobes, tray and arms.

For example, say an S90 costs $400. The FIX housing is $800. The rest of the system will cost $1500-2000 (for strobes, tray, arms, wide angle lens, macro lens, focus light, Pelican case..). It adds up.

The Panasonic GF1 with 14-45mm lens costs about $800. A 10bar housing for it costs about $900. The other accessories cost about the same.

So you spend about $500 more for a GF1 system. Why do that? Real simple: it shoots faster and has better image quality. The GF1 has lower shutter lag, and in real terms that means more good shots of active fish. In rough terms, the shutter lag of an S90 is about 0.7 seconds (but S90 focus slows down in low light at longer focal lengths and when shooting at or near the closest focus distance), while the GF1/14-45 combo comes in about .3 seconds. Shutter lag really matters if you shoot active subjects. Image quality really matters if you make big prints. HD video matters if you share your scuba experience on a big screen, but not so much if you shoot for web publication. Those are things to weigh.

It's true you don't get ultra wide angle with the 14-45 lens and I'm not sure what the close up lens options are. You'd have to spend a lot more for the 7-14mm lens and dome for ultra wide, if that were your passion. I assume you could dry mount a close up lens on the 14-45 if you planned mostly macro on a dive. Here the point and shoots definitely have more options, with excellent wet lenses to expand the range - more flexibility during the dive.

So think hard about what you want to shoot. You're going to be spending quite a bit on this system and you need to be sure it will do what you want.

 

[Puffer Fish]

I can't disagree with that. For a deluxe system using a top performing point and shoot, it's a winner.

But... if you are willing to spend that much money, you might want to confirm whether the point and shoot camera is the best choice for what you want to shoot. For only a little more you could step up to a micro 4/3 camera system -- and have a much faster shooting system with better image quality and HD video. In a complete system the cost of the camera is dwarfed by the cost of accessories like housing, strobes, tray and arms.

For example, say an S90 costs $400. The FIX housing is $800. The rest of the system will cost $1500-2000 (for strobes, tray, arms, wide angle lens, macro lens, focus light, Pelican case..). It adds up.

The Panasonic GF1 with 14-45mm lens costs about $800. A 10bar housing for it costs about $900. The other accessories cost about the same.

So you spend about $500 more for a GF1 system. Why do that? Real simple: it shoots faster and has better image quality. The GF1 has lower shutter lag, and in real terms that means more good shots of active fish. In rough terms, the shutter lag of an S90 is about 0.7 seconds (but S90 focus slows down in low light at longer focal lengths and when shooting at or near the closest focus distance), while the GF1/14-45 combo comes in about .3 seconds. Shutter lag really matters if you shoot active subjects. Image quality really matters if you make big prints. HD video matters if you share your scuba experience on a big screen, but not so much if you shoot for web publication. Those are things to weigh.

It's true you don't get ultra wide angle with the 14-45 lens and I'm not sure what the close up lens options are. You'd have to spend a lot more for the 7-14mm lens and dome for ultra wide, if that were your passion. I assume you could dry mount a close up lens on the 14-45 if you planned mostly macro on a dive. Here the point and shoots definitely have more options, with excellent wet lenses to expand the range - more flexibility during the dive.

So think hard about what you want to shoot. You're going to be spending quite a bit on this system and you need to be sure it will do what you want.

There are a few issues with what you have posted... the 10bar housing only has a dome for the 14-45, so no add on lens. Macro would be with the Leica 45mm lens (expensive little guy, but lovely quality). I would already have that housing if the 14-45 could be used with an outside threaded flat port.

I've never had an issue with the shutter delay on the G10 or the S90. Just takes learning a few skills.

With an S90:

You do get better image quality, and HD video with the Pany, and you get F stops... an actual range of F stops, but to get a usable housing, you have to double the price, and then add some lens, so the total goes up a lot.

Now if 10 bar makes a housing for the Sony NEX5, and they have a dome for their zoom (which can do macro), then I am so there.