Welcome to ScubaBoard, an online scuba diving forum community where you can join over 205,000 divers diving from around the world. If the topic is related to scuba diving, this is the place to find divers talking about it. To gain full access to ScubaBoard (and make this large box go away) you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

  • Participate in over 500 dive topic forums and browse from over 5,500,000 posts.
  • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
  • Post your own photos or view from well over 100,000 user submitted images.
  • Gain access to our free classifieds marketplace to buy, sell and trade gear, travel and services.
  • Use the calendar to organize your events and enroll in other members' events.
  • Find a dive buddy or communicate directly with scuba equipment manufacturers.

All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

NEW for 2014 Access SBlogbook for members. It allows you to directly upload data from your dive computer, validate your logs digitally, link your dives to photos, videos, dive centers (9,000 on file), fishes (14,000 on file) and much more.

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact the ScubaBoard Support Team.
Page 5 of 26 FirstFirst 1234567891015 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 253
Like Tree297Likes

Thread: Diver missing today? 03/28/12

 


  1. #41
    Registered


    Has not set a "status"
     

    scubawife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    NY
    Dives
    200 - 499
    Not every cruise ship diver is inexperienced, solo or renting gear. There are divers who plan to dive in every port and take their own gear. Also ones who do have a dive buddy with them. In this case, at least from the info that's been reported, it seems to me the issue is a solo ascent and possibly no smb or other signaling device. Could just as easily have been an experienced diver with their own gear staying on the island... in fact, a couple accidents last years were.

    My experience in Cozumel and most places I've dived, is that what's discussed as "the rules" in the dive briefing and what transpires during the dive don't always match. I've also never been on a boat in the Caribbean where having an SMB is required, or the buddy system is really enforced. I've routinely seen solo ascents in Cozumel. Most with the DM aware and shooting their marker, the diver ascending close to the line, but a number of them have been a diver signaling the DM or their buddy and before anyone can do or say anything, they're on their way. With a current, you can be 20 ft above or below someone and be traveling a totally different rate and you can't just catch up to them. Even with a DM's SMB, and seeing the diver reach the surface, anything can happen once you're on the surface. You can't have a group finning against a current to stay in place until the diver is climbing into the boat. It's not practical.

    Something I learned early on in diving, and something enforced in other dive training I've done, is to dive with a buddy but think as if you're alone. If you can't self-rescue, or get a handle on the situation long enough to think and get yourself to another diver to get whatever assistance you need, then eventually, if you dive enough and dive long enough, you will find yourself in a situation that if not for luck, you won't be getting out of. Even the most trained and experienced diver can get into a panic situation, have a medical or gear emergency and need help. That's ok, we're all human. I think too many divers don't seem to ever think in terms of what if they're the one having to provide assistance, or what if they end up on their own. I don't think there's enough emphasis in the cert course about what being a "buddy" real means. It's more than just not diving alone. So much about what you learn and how well you get trained has to do with the individual instructors you choose for your courses.

    Accidents happen, and they can happen to anyone at anytime. Surfacing with a buddy might not change the outcome, but if you aren't picked up or have some other surface emergency, two heads are better than one. Your chances of a good outcome are always going to be better if you aren't alone.

    I hope this story has a positive outcome. My heart goes out to the diver's family. It's got to be so stressful waiting on information and not knowing what happened or where she is.

  2. #42
    MSDT



    Just waiting for the next trip
     

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    15,111
    Dives
    1,000 - 2,499
    Photos
    6
    Years ago I went to Cozumel with a large group of relatives, including one who had gotten certified for that vacation. It was his first ocean diving experience. The currents were very strong that week, perhaps the strongest I have ever experienced. He was struggling with them more than others because of his inexperience. Because of that, the two of us were at the back of the group on one of the dives. It was an unusual current in that it kept trying to blow us off the reef, so we couldn't just drift with it. All of a sudden he started to ascend. It was not his choice--he had lost control of his buoyancy. He was unable to control that ascent--he kept drifting up and away from me in the current. I couldn't catch him. I followed him all the way to the surface, where he was picked up by the boat.

    The DM later thanked me for going up with him. At what point did he notice our ascent? I don't know. Unless he was looking at us at the moment we started up, I doubt he would have known we were gone until he looked back and did a count of the group. I can't blame him--he can't do a dive looking at every single diver 100% of the time. Did he know the boat had picked him up? I suspect so, since I came back down and signaled OK, but that was pretty well after the fact. Perhaps he saw the entire thing and knew it would be OK.

    I just think that even with an attentive DM, it is very easy for an inexperienced diver in difficult conditions to make an uncontrolled ascent that is not witnessed by the DM. Not having a buddy witness it is another matter altogether.
    Jax likes this.
    John Adsit
    Boulder, Colorado
    My Education Articles

  3. #43
    ScubaBoard Veteran


    VOTE DEMOCRAT it's easier than
    working
     

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Dives
    100 - 199
    Photos
    7
    The last part of your post is what at issue here.

    My reply: It depends. Why is the DM there in this particular case? Is to be a guide showing where all the cool things are, or is it ensure those without good team mates are safe? In this case I'd say it was to point out the cool stuff. If the poor woman felt she wasn't up to the task then she should have paid for a dive guide, someone to keep her safe. If the DM is acting as a dive guide he's probably not making an evaluation of every diver. No time. Not what he was hired to do. So I'm back to my point. If the DM is responsible then he HAS to evaluate his charges before they go on the sightseeing trip. How well do you think that will go over with the more experienced divers? Not well. Again, back to my point. Don't blame the DM for the loss of this poor woman. Not his fault.

    Here's a dilemma for you. If he is in fact responsible for the safety of everyone on the dive, should he put the majority at risk, leaving them so he can attend to the one diver? I can't answer that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firefyter View Post
    This is the case more often than not. They either need babysitting, or want it.

    There are a few that will do almost that once they are confident in your skills. It really pays in this area to develop a relationship with your DM through the years. Once they find you are capable and that they can trust you, you do get more freedom.



    Don't want one, don't need one. I trust my skills way more than I trust most other divers. I'll take care of myself, thanks.....



    Randy, I get your point, and I totally agree with you. However, if you're diving with a DM there for more than one dive, don't think they're not evaluating you. They're watching how you dive, and this evaluation has a lot to do with what other sites you dive with them.


    ---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

    Simply having a "buddy" is no guarantee of safety. I've been on dives where I end up being the safety diver because my "buddy" doesn't know squat about being a team member. Simply having a buddy is NOT the answer to reducing dive accidents.

    Having a well trained team mate is what we as divers really need. Not just a "buddy."

  4. #44
    Registered


    Has not set a "status"
     

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    13
    She was with her husband. She told her husband she needed to go to the surface. Her husband let the instructor know then headed up himself but when he reached the surface he couldn't find her. The current was part of the problem.

  5. #45
    Registered


    Has not set a "status"
     

    logansar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth TX USA
    Posts
    71
    Dives
    200 - 499
    I posted this on the other thread.....

    I was there two weeks ago and dove in the normal south to north current 2 days then the third day at Santa Rosa had a north to south current and a thermocline (visible - fuzzy water) that went from 80 to 75 degrees.... It was so screwed up my Son and I floated for 18 minutes before getting picked p. the current scattered divers for a very long distance.

    Day 4 we were headed North again....

    Very strangle

    Sarge


    Sarge
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


    Sarge
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  6. #46
    Registered


    ran out of status in 2009
     

    Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Dives
    100 - 199
    All this reminds me of Aldora's dive practice of everybody down at once, everybody up at once as extremely effective in minimizing the risks of stuff like this happening.
    suprane and Prop Joe like this.
    Mike

    MORE COWBELL!

  7. #47
    Registered


    Has not set a "status"
     

    logansar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth TX USA
    Posts
    71
    Dives
    200 - 499
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    That's weird, I thought that picture was flipped at first. I've never dived it going the opposite way.
    Is the normal current north to south or south to north.... Trying to picture it....

    Sarge


    Sarge
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  8. #48
    Jax
    Jax is offline
    Forgive your enemies . .


    . but keep your gun oiled.
     

    Jax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Southwest
    Dives
    200 - 499
    Photos
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by logansar View Post
    Is the normal current north to south or south to north.... Trying to picture it....

    Sarge


    Sarge
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Normal is South to North. Not sure what makes it change.
    "Equality of opportunity or equality of outcome?
    One is consistent with a free people and the other requires a police state. Pick one."
    ~Cool Hardware52
    I, alone, am responsible for my health and safety, my actions and inactions.
    "If a small thing has the power to make you angry, does that not indicate something about your size?" ~Sydney J. Harris
    Ephesians 4:26 In your anger do not sin.

  9. #49
    Registered


    ran out of status in 2009
     

    Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Dives
    100 - 199
    Quote Originally Posted by logansar View Post
    Is the normal current north to south or south to north.... Trying to picture it....

    Sarge


    Sarge
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I've never paid any attention to compass directions, but the reef wall has always been on my right shoulder.
    Mike

    MORE COWBELL!

  10. #50
    Registered


    Has not set a "status"
     

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by robint View Post
    1. since the lady was diving from a cruise ship, it can be surmised that she did not bring her own gear so was using rental gear which she was not familiar with and also that she was a beginner.
    2. since it says the DM did not know she was gone, it can also be surmised that she did not signal to him (ever boat dive I have ever done, the DM briefs that you need to tell him if you need to go up, for whatever reason, and your buddy always goes with you)
    3. since she was diving from a cruise ship, it can also be assumed that she was buddied with someone that she did not know and that neither of them was paying any attention to the other... a newbie mistake.
    4. AND we can all assume at this point that current had nothing to do with the disappearance.

    All assumptions... but I think most likely all true.

    I hope they find her alive, but the longer it goes, the less likely.

    robin
    She was buddied up with her husband not a stranger. She told her husband she needed to go to the surface. Her husband let the DM know then headed up himself but when he reached the surface he couldn't find her. The current was part of the problem. They did inform the DM she needed to go up.And they bought most of their gear so none of these assumptions are actually true.
    ibj40 likes this.

Page 5 of 26 FirstFirst 1234567891015 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Diver Missing - Aliwal Shoal
    By ShoalDiverSA in forum Accidents and Incidents
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: October 31st, 2004, 03:52 AM
  2. Diver Missing
    By padiscubapro in forum Accidents and Incidents
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: May 4th, 2004, 07:54 PM
  3. Diver Missing in the Florida Keys
    By jviehe in forum Accidents and Incidents
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: December 1st, 2003, 07:28 PM
  4. Diver Missing in Tacoma
    By 2Dive4fun in forum Pacific Northwest
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: September 8th, 2003, 08:53 AM
  5. Sad news - diver missing in Riau Islands
    By neve in forum Basic Scuba Discussions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: August 15th, 2002, 03:04 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •