Reducing flow in a farmer John suit?

[Papasmurf89]

Hey guys,

Just got a cheap farmer John suit and while it keeps me relatively warm, there is definitely some flow throughout the suit when I move around. I can definitely feel the water coming in around the neck area. Is there anything I can do to help reduce this flow? I was thinking about sewing some rubber lining to the inside of the suit around the joints (like in semi-dry suits). Do you think this would be effective? My only concern is that since I wear a vest underneath, it won't create as good a seal as it would if the rubber lining was against my skin.

Unrelated, but can anyone also recommend a good hooded vest? I feel like a good vest will provide a better seal as well. I'm currently just using an old, beat-up one that I got from a friend.

Thanks.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba 2]

What exactly do you mean by "flow"? Wetsuits work by letting small amounts of water into the suit then using your body heat to warm the water creating a warm layer between your skin and the suit. With this in mind a constant stream of cold water rushing in isn't ideal either. A hooded vest may definitely help you out here. What type of diving do you regularly do? Fresh? Salt? Temps?

 

[Papasmurf89]

Good point...I do realize that some "flow" is inherent in wetsuits and that a farmer John will always have more flow than a 1-piece suit. I guess it might be easier to describe it by talking about my recent experience with the suit. This was a dive in Monterey, CA (at the Breakwater for those familiar). 25 feet for 50 minutes. Water temp was 61 degrees Fahrenheit; pretty warm although I do get cold easily. Suit kept me nice and toasty for the majority of the dive. In the last 10 minutes though I was a bit cool. Definitely not cold and I was totally fine but was a little chillier than I would have preferred. I was only really cold when I would move a bunch and I could feel water come in around my neck area. The initial surge of water chilled me down quick and while the water did warm up, I definitely wasn't as warm as before. Any thoughts on what I might be able to do to reduce this influx of water around the neck? I'm assuming my options are pretty limited (i.e. get a thick vest so that it's a tighter fit) but figured I'd post here in case there was something I didn't think of.

Edit: To clarify, it definitely is not a constant stream of cold water. Just a quick stream when I move and the area around my neck opens up a bit. I also have a vest right not but I think it's only 3 mm. Any recommendations for a good vest? And as a whole, was pretty darn warm for the whole dive. More worried about this for when the water temps start cooling down (would say average is around 55 Fahrenheit here).

 

[Dive Right In Scuba 2]

Well, there are 2 things about your statement that jumped out at me. First was the fact that you stated that you got chilled towards the end of the dive. A large factor in this is the fact that cold is a factor of time, the longer you are immersed and wet the cooler your body gets. This will happen no matter how much neoprene you have wrapped around you. Secondly was the fact that you do get cold easily, while 61 degree water is far from arctic it is quite a bit cooler than 98.6 degrees. While farmer john type suits are great for added warmth by doubling up the amount of neoprene around your core, they quite often have the issue of letting more water in than a single piece suit. With wetsuits "tighter" beyond form fitting isn't the best answer as there are issues with restriction etc.. Have you ever considered trying out dry suit diving?

 

[Papasmurf89]

I have. I currently don't have the money to spend on one right now though. With that said, I'm a scientific diver and as such, work around a lot of rocky reefs so tearing is a concern. Many of the people in my lab dive with custom 10mm wetsuits. I'll probably get one of those eventually when I get enough money (they also aren't cheap, running around $700) as I heard they're amazing. Not to say that there aren't people that dive dry, but they are definitely in the minority (like <5%). I basically got this farmer John because it was cheap ($100) and I just needed something to hold me over until I get one of the custom ones. So for now...I'd like to make do with this suit. Do you think the rubber lining idea would work at all? Any vests you would recommended?

 

[Dive Right In Scuba 2]

Rubber lining may work for you, I can see your hesitation being a scientific diver as I am one myself...nautical archaeology to be specific. Oddly enough, I happened to have a cheap 100 dollar farmer john many years ago that had the same problem of letting water in. Perhaps a good option to look into is the Thermocline hooded vest by 4th element. It's not the cheapest option out there but it is made of lighter composite materials that are neutrally buoyant so it won't require anymore weight than you are already using.

 

[KeithG]

get a custom measured suit. a properly fitted suit will not have "flow". it will have minimal "trickle" that is not noticeable after the first minute or two of your dive.

if you can feel cold water coming in during the dive, you have a poorly fitting suit. mostly useless for thermal protection. it is simply a cold water pump.

adding another layer of poorly fit suit only increases your buoyancy. it has little to no effect on thermal protection. if cold water is coming in, then your suit is not working.

kind of like a half open window in your house in the winter time...

 

[NAM001]

My harveys is a farmer john and it only has seals in the wrist and ankle's. water can get in through my neck but has no exit from the suit. the large overlap between the pants and shorty makes that seal. your idea is worth a try.

Hey guys,

Just got a cheap farmer John suit and while it keeps me relatively warm, there is definitely some flow throughout the suit when I move around. I can definitely feel the water coming in around the neck area. Is there anything I can do to help reduce this flow? I was thinking about sewing some rubber lining to the inside of the suit around the joints (like in semi-dry suits). Do you think this would be effective? My only concern is that since I wear a vest underneath, it won't create as good a seal as it would if the rubber lining was against my skin.

Unrelated, but can anyone also recommend a good hooded vest? I feel like a good vest will provide a better seal as well. I'm currently just using an old, beat-up one that I got from a friend.

Thanks.

 

[spectrum]

Hey guys,

Just got a cheap farmer John suit and while it keeps me relatively warm, there is definitely some flow throughout the suit when I move around. I can definitely feel the water coming in around the neck area. Is there anything I can do to help reduce this flow? I was thinking about sewing some rubber lining to the inside of the suit around the joints (like in semi-dry suits). Do you think this would be effective? My only concern is that since I wear a vest underneath, it won't create as good a seal as it would if the rubber lining was against my skin.

Unrelated, but can anyone also recommend a good hooded vest? I feel like a good vest will provide a better seal as well. I'm currently just using an old, beat-up one that I got from a friend.

Thanks.

Four things come to mind form what you state:
1) Completeness of your ensemble
2) Fit
3) Quality
4) Expectations

1) You can only expect so much of a seal fomr a back or front zip wetsuit. The contours of your neck and the existence of the zipper there make a significant seal an impossibility. This is a driver behind the evolution to chest entry wetsuits where an uninterrupted neck seal can be formed. A bibbed hood with the bib tucked in will help. A hooded vest worn under or over depending on the product to the most so seal off the neck opening see here.

2) The overall suit must fir closely with a hint of compression. Any water space is to the detriment. Water does nothing to make a wetsuit work, it is a conductor. At best your body tolerates static water while thhe suit tries to keep you warm. Any significant volume of water and the ability for it to exchange is a prescription for a chilly diver. More here

3) Not all suits are created equal. Quality of material, water tightness of seams and cleverness of design all contribute. The fit of a suit is a very individual thing. Of 2 equally good suits one will suit your better.

4) You describe it as a cheap suit and of course realize there are top tier products and then semi dry and dry. By definition this means you will hit the wall sooner than many. I may be missing it but I didn't spot a material thickness. At 61F I'd be talking 7mm. A well fit farmer john will not be colder than a one piece suit. The cut of a modern farmer John has a generous overlap and pays back with 2X of neoprene on your core. Better yet is a full suit & step-in vest. I will also guess that you are answer diver and may be sculling flapping and moving more than some. This will exaggerate the peristalsis of the suit. The other side of the story is that motion generates body heat, Photographers are often challenged by cold so ultimately in the same suit you exchange one cold for another as you become more sedate in the water.

As for your suggestion of adding a neck dam.... Give it a shot, you have little to lose. many of the flip seals and other commercial wetsuit features are pretty primitive devices that a DIY person can easily replicate.

Pete