Surface Markers, Lift Bags, etc. What gives?

[Mo2vation]

Clueless here.

I've ordered my BP/W rig, and its coming with the storage pack for an SMB, lift bag, etc.

The types of diving I do, off the back of a boat, putter around, and back to the boat - I'm having a hard time determining the usefulness of some of this stuff.

A SMB - sure. Current, lose the chain, etc. - come up away from the boat, get positive, inflate, wave it around for help. OK.

Is there something I'm missing? Aren't lift bags generally for recovery, etc. I'm a rec diver...the only thing I'm recovering is me.

The two seem to be used interchangably across the threads quite often - please help me to understand.

I keep a very HD closed circuit sausage in my pocket at all times. Is there more to this, or are my dive profiles not the type that uses this stuff?

Thanks -

Ken

 

[MechDiver]

If you carry a surface marker with you, I see no reason why you would need a DSMB.

We use DSMBs for deco hangs or to provide redundant buoyancy when using steel tanks. A DSMB is a lift bag. Same thing, just different application.

I also don't care for the storage bag, as its too hard to get the bag out of it. I stow mine under the bp with bungee on both my bp's.

MD

And, if you have ordered a bp&w, I wouldn't consider you "clueless". Now, a HUB...well, never mind

 

[Dee]

My diving isn't much different from yours and I thought the same thing. I prefer the SMB to a regular safety sausage type because it's longer, larger, and easier to see than the small ones. Also, if I come across an anchor, other debris, etc. that I want to either recover or take for disposal, my SMB is rated for 50# of lift so I can so that.

Most dedicated lift bags are open circuit, which means the air will spill out if it's tipped over. I couldn't use one as a surface marker or bouyancy device on the surface if it won't hold the air in rough seas. My SMB will do all that.

It's got the best features of both and I don't dive without it.

 

[Mo2vation]

Re: Deco Hang. Of course - if you guys are hanging there for however long you hang, at whatever depth you hang, it makes sense to shoot a bag so some yahoo with a Rapala doesn't ruin your day (...fish on!!) Not that a bag would stop some people, but it has to help.

My current SMB is oral inflate - I may get one that's inflator inflate ( ) now that I'm going to a standard inflator config and losing my beloved AirSource.

What's the deal with reels? Can you tell none of this stuff was covered in my AOW?

Three types I've seen: Horizontal spool (like in the Fundy's book...held under the goodman handle in the light hand) vertical spool (most common I've seen...like a fly reel) and what looks like just a spool.

Are the spools interchangable, like a fly reel, or does the spool serve as a sort of stand-alone pocket-sized reel? I can see carrying a spool in the pocket (cliped off to my pocket D-ring) for the SMB, and maybe other stuff (like my recent I'll-fated "where the hell is the wreck" trip...tying off the spool to the anchor chain and making a big circle would have saved that dive... clueless Cap't missed the thing by a good 50 - 70'...totally out of vis range from the chain as we all sort of went out and never did find it)

Thanks MD & Dee.

 

[Jonathan]

Ahh Mo2vation, sounds like you've been swung by some of our friends on the board into buying some new kit.....

Some parts of the world - Thailand as I found at Christmas for one - say that if you are not coming up the line you should deploy an SMB. I had one problem with that - most people on my boat had not got a clue!! Also after seeing the mess they all got into with their loaned SMB with 6m of string wrapped around it I was very glad I had packed one of my reels....

For SMB I love my CD50SS reel - easy to use and good handle to hang on to.

For how to deploy I really would advise you get an instructor to give you some pointers and show you in the water - again great evidence of that was seen on the boat in Thailand.

Also if it is the pack I'm thinking of you don't have to attach it if you don't want to....

Jonathan

 

[MechDiver]

Mo2vation once bubbled...

What's the deal with reels? Can you tell none of this stuff was covered in my AOW?

Three types I've seen: Horizontal spool (like in the Fundy's book...held under the goodman handle in the light hand) vertical spool (most common I've seen...like a fly reel) and what looks like just a spool.

Are the spools interchangable, like a fly reel, or does the spool serve as a sort of stand-alone pocket-sized reel? I can see carrying a spool in the pocket (cliped off to my pocket D-ring) for the SMB, and maybe other stuff (like my recent I'll-fated "where the hell is the wreck" trip...tying off the spool to the anchor chain and making a big circle would have saved that dive... clueless Cap't missed the thing by a good 50 - 70'...totally out of vis range from the chain as we all sort of went out and never did find it)

Thanks MD & Dee.

There are many styles, as well as sizes of reels, depending on their intended use. If you go to the Manta Ind., OMS, and Halcyon websites you can get a fairly good idea of the types available. That is by no means all of them, but it gets the idea across. They are used by wreck and cave divers, as well as some of us for DSMBs. And as you said, they have other uses depending on your imagination!

A spool is just that, a device to hold some line. GUE seems to prefer spools for use with DSMBs as they cannot birdnest and are about as simple as it gets. Ahh, the spools, not GUE folks Watch the FifthD video on shooting a lift bag to get an idea how they work.

I have a spool tied of in my drysuit pocket that is always with me. I carry a reel if needed, but always have the spool.

And, I agree with Jonathan. If you are contemplating using these tools, I would suggest you get some training beforehand. It isn't rocket science, but it still helps to get some pointers.

MD

 

[Mo2vation]

I'm a big fan of organized training. I will surely seek out my LDS for some wrech training - lots of those around here. Caves not so much.

K

 

[ChrisM]

Another point I don't think was raised....

if you dive wet, the safest type to use is open cell (i.e., inflated using the primary reg on long hose). This is to prevent you from having to disconnect the LP inflator button to inflate and losing your sole source of buoyancy. Or you could inflate a closed cell orally.

If diving dry, OK to use closed cell because you can disconnect the drysuit inflaotr hose and still have a source of buoyancy

Carter lift bags/SMBs are open cell, but they have a "flap" to retain air after inflation.

This is covered in DIRF as well.

Chris

 

[Uncle Pug]

Whether lift bag, sausage or SMB shallow water practice without significant bottom time is in order... these things are not benign.

Shooting a bag can send you to the surface in a hurry if you get tangled in the line or the line gets tangled in the reel and you are holding onto it.

I prefer spools as they do not tangle and you can let them spin freely without even touching them until the bag/marker breaks the surface.... however they are a little more difficult to wind back in.

 

[Mo2vation]

As is more training on some of this stuff...

Fortunately I have just such a place to practice all this stuff at the Avalon Dive Park on Catalina. No boat traffic, hardly ever a current, great vis, easy entry, and lots of open space.

I can see it now....Wifie / dive buddy will be hanging out watching fish while I get the hang of my BP/W rig, work on trim and proper wrighting (how do you sign "hold this weight, honey..I think I'm heavy...") shoot a few bags, practice alternative kicks in my stubby fins, OOA drills with the long hose (she's still on the AirSource) and generally get a grip as I commence moving from 'conventional' gear into my DIR configuration.

From watching a few videos, reading about the type of diving I do and applying the purpose of some of these things, the spool sounds like the way to go for me.

Wish I had time tomorrow or Friday to go work with it and the rest of the rig, but the harness and Plate aren't arriving until a few hours before my trip. Hopefully, or its rent-a-bc time.

The spool and stubbys will have to wait until I return.

Its starting to come together.

Thanks all.

Ken


PS: Uncle Pug - I remember reading when I first joined the board a post about what you carried in your pockets. I believe there were pics too...maybe not. I can't find the post. If you could post a link to it, I'd appreciate it.

K