Regulator Parts

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O2Addict

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Scuba Instructor
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Nassau, Bahamas
I worked in the dive industry in the Bahamas for holiday times while at HighSchool and College. During that time I got certified by several manufacturers in repair and servicing for their regulators.

What annoys me is that now I do not work for a dive shop I cannot obtain parts for the regulators. I have to pay $50-$100 to have my equipment serviced by someone that is not even certified to repair the equipment!!!

Does anyone else have this problem? Or even know where to get parts, Trident carry most 2nd stage parts but you still need the manufacturer kits.

I do not agree with the DIY approach, and I also do not agree with the newbie that just completed his PADI equipment speciality fixing his own reg etc. Regulator repair is not rocket science but some regs do need the service manuals.

Anyway interested to see what other people think or do.
 
With proper training on the specific regulator you need to fix everything should be fine. I for one do not trust anyone but myself and I am going to seek out the best training I can no the specific regulators that I use so that I can fix them. $50-$100 dollars does not bother me as long as it is done properly. Other than that I have no idea where you can parts for a Trident reg but good luck on your search.
 
Last time I checked, Trident doesn't make regs, and no offense but ibecause you attended a few seminars does not make you 'certified' in any respect. All it means is that you attended a seminar on how to service that type of equipment. Also that certificate is void as soon as you leave the facility you took it with (at least mine does).

To obtain parts you have to be an authorized dealer of the product and dealers most certainly do not sell parts off the shelf..
 
i am quite sure that ampike knows that trident does not make regs but they certainly sell a lot of parts which is what the is talking about. unfortunately, you will have no luck getting part kits in the US except from dive rite and abyss. the others will not sell them because they are concerned for your safety. i can buy all the parts i need to service the brakes on my car but not so for a reg. go figure. of course, in reality the industry is trying to protect the money they make on service. in europe they are less stringent and you may be able to find parts there over the internet. it also is not very difficult to get parts in europe when you go to a shop in person. however, that's probably not an option for you. good luck.
 
ampike,

I'm in the same situation as you. I worked at a dive shop and serviced regs profissionally. Now that I don't work there anymore, I don't have access to parts. I ended up paying some guy to service one set of regs...drives me crazy to do so when I could have done a better job. Parts are hard to come by...good luck.
 
<Rant on>

I wonder how we ever let this industry “Self- Regulate” us into this situation. Years ago, like 50, Popular Mechanic’s came out with an article detailing how you could take a military surplus regulator from an aircraft and make a scuba regulator. You took the oxygen tank to your local fire station and got your air and went diving. Now we can’t even get the manuals from the manufacturers on the equipment that we own. Anyone that thinks about this with an open mind will understand that the liability argument is a bunch of BS used to try to keep the money in the industry. They want to force consumers to buy a dozen 6-cent o-rings and pay someone that might or might not be competent but will not be as motivated to do the job properly, fifty or so dollars a year for each regulator they have. No other industry I can think of is allowed to operate this way.

<Rant off>

If you don’t have access to an o-ring hardness tester and don’t feel good about using the TLAR, TFAR method to select the correct o-ring, I bet you can find this information on the Internet somewhere. (Trying not to go back into rant mode). As long as the regulator is reasonably well taken care of the seats are the only things I would be concerned with needing and not being able to find. The price of “Servicing” one or two regulators at a shop will buy you all the correct o-rings you will need for years. (Sorry small rant there) The seats in the secondary may be able to be flipped over to use the other side but this won’t work regulators like the Apex TX. The H-P valve stem in a balanced diaphragm is only touching the seat when charged and then only lightly, unless something has been introduced into it, I have never seen this worn.

Truva
 
Most of the downstream, dual adjustment regs use a fairly standard rubber seat in the second stage that can be flipped.

With the balanced single adjustment second stage designs, the seats are normally either in the poppet assembly or bonded to the poppet assembly and are not generic or easily replaced wthout access to the proper parts.

But...if you are real careful and are good with your hands you can take your wife's emery board and resurface them. You need to be very careful to keep it absolutley square and flat and to stop when you have sanded just enough to remove the set ring. This also usually only works once as the rubber on the poppet is too thin to tolerate refacing twice. It is definitely not manufacturer approved and is an "at or your own risk" kind of thing. It will also make your wife mad as it leaves a black smear on her emery board. The thinner refaced poppet seat may also cause some problems in single adjustment regs as it can affect lever height and consequently cause problems with the flow volume available from the second stage. I have done this with vintage regs where the parts are no longer available but highly recommend getting a new seat or poppet assembly if at all possible.

As for o-rings, in most simple standard unbalanced piston designs the dynamic head and piston stem o-rings are not exposed to full tank pressure so the normal garden variety o-rings in the plumbing department are usually (but not guarenteed to be) hard enough to work with the 120-145 psi pressures involved assuming they are correctly sized.

Balanced regulators are a different story as the stem o-ring will be subjected to full tank pressures of up to 3300 psi. So it needs to be adequately hard and precisely sized to prevent an o-ring pinch bewteen the body and the piston stem and needs to be very durable as well to tolerate the 1500 or so cycles per dive that it sees. There is not much room for error for an o-ring in that application and getting a generic one from a third party source can be a problem if you do not know the design specifications for the required o-ring.

The static o-rings in the first and second stages normally just need to be cleaned, inspected and re-lubricated and do not need to be replaced every year, so parts availablity is not as big an issue there.

With either style of first stage you also need to understand some basics regarding IP pressure tests to ensure things are working properly. You also need to understand the requirements of adjusting both single and dual adjustment second stages to do it properly and safely.

Contrary to what has been suggested, HP seats can and do fail over time and usually result in a slow creep in Intermediate Pressure that ultimately causes a freeflow in the second stage. The knife edge on the piston is not in contact with the seat when the reg is not pressurized, but the seat does see an awful lot of cycles per dive (1500 or more). Some of the flat variety of HP seats in piston second stages can be flipped. Concave or conical seats cannot and need to be replaced.

The cautionary statement here though is that the consequences of the failure of an improperly or inadequately serviced reg at the wrong time can be severe and fatal, so it really is important to know what you are doing and know what to look for when inspecting a reg.

In my opinion reading about servicing a reg and then doing it is just like reading about wreck penetration and then doing it - you may know the theory but the devil is in the details and you are really asking for trouble if you do it without formal instruction.

If you just have to do your own servicing, get some training from a tech on your specific reg if possible or at least get some good reading on the subject first. The following is a very good guide that will help you understand the mechanical principles involved although the author clearly states is not designed or intended for do-it-yourselfers. Just like the guys who write books on wreck diving - they also state you need training to go with the reading.

http://www.scubatools.com/RegSavvy.html
 
Bob3 once bubbled...
That would be the July issue of Popular Science from 1953.
I've been meaning to scan the article, it's a goodie. :wink:
Please do. I would love to read it.
 
DA Aquamaster, right I should have called them this:

With the balanced single adjustment second stage designs,

Just what happens when someone with no formal training on something talks about it. :)

Anyway:

I did qualify my statement about the H-P valve stem never being worn. Over the years and the thousands of pressure regulators and transducers I have rebuilt and calibrated <NOT TALKING SCUBA>, these parts are rarely worn out unless something has been introduced into it that shouldn’t be there. In a balanced design, like the diaphragm style scuba regulator, the stem only closes hard enough to stop the flow into the I-P chamber, if nothing is damaged on the either seating surface this is very light pressure. I expect because of the pressure differential involved that if you have a cut or some type of damage to these surfaces the pressure would cut right into it and you’d know real quick. I have never seen this with a scuba regulator but I have certainly seen it with other types of valves. Scuba equipment is just like the stuff I have worked on for years, industrial equipment that is used 24/7, the seats just do not get a lot of pressure on them as long as it’s just a gas that the piece is designed to handle, all bets are off when you start running salts or other grit through them.

Funny experience I had with a brand new regulator that had an o-ring failure. The last time I purchased some regulators I took them to work to hook them up to some equipment to test flow rates and check them out. One of the four I bought had a very slight I-P creep, so I took it apart and found that the o-ring that seals up the mechanism that held the H-P stem had a slight cut/defect in it. I measured the o-ring durometer and then decided why not do them all while I had it apart and make a list. The odd thing about this was all of them were 70’s, a few years later when I finally got a peak at the manual for it there should have been 90’s used in a few places. Just goes to show you that just because an engineer says so doesn’t mean it happens.

But back to the point here: I would not let the fact that I didn’t have all the parts I would like to have to rebuild my regulator kept me from tearing it apart and cleaning it. Cleanliness is really the key to long life with this stuff, that and don’t let anyone change tanks for you, and don’t loan it out to a buddy. You can go years without having to change anything; I only change o-rings every time I clean one because the “book” says to.

Truva
 

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