Darkroom help needed, not digital

[cummings66]

OK, I need some advice. I have a darkroom and do my own film and prints. For normal surface prints I have no problems at all, color is pretty easy for the most part. However, I have lots of problems doing color prints from my local quarry and can't seem to nail it down. Part of it I'm sure is that I can't seem to remember what the colors looked like beyond the highlights, vis is normally 5 to 15 feet so it's not like the ocean.

For you guys that do your own work, how do you handle a print from the conditions I outlined? I've sent out my prints and they come back more green than I recall, almost like they used the normal suggested starting filtration printed on the box. I can match that easily enough, but it's not right and I sort of think it's a yellowish green color. When I look at something I perceive as white, if I print it where it is white then the other colors are way off and I know it's not right. I've heard a persons brain will compensate to make a color come out as expected and maybe that's why it seems white to me, but maybe it's not in real life.

From the quarry's I've dove, they seem pretty similar lighting wise and so I'm curious if anybody has bothered to experiment with color in them and has any tricks they can tell?

 

[Sasquatch]

Do you use lens filters?

 

[cummings66]

Not on the camera, I suppose that might help.

 

[double80s]

You might try posting on http://www.wetpixel.com or on the SoCal board, http://diver.net/bbs Elaine on the diver.net board is a great film photographer and might be able to give you advise.

 

[fdog]

To an extent, you mind does perceive colors differently. The white slate is actually blue from the water, plus, whatever color was donated by the contaminant, like tannin or algae.

So when you color correct the slate to white, the other colors are way off from reality.

Try correcting an above-water frame from the same roll until it looks right, then print a test strip of the underwater stuff using the same settings.

A strobe (of course) will provide an underwater light source that generates color balances somewhat closer to above-water normals, too.

All the best, James

 

[gert7to3]

What Film do you use?
What processing does it take?
What paper do you print on?
Have you considered black & white? There are some C-41 process B&W films now available. So if you don't want to process B&W film yourself, you won't have to pay extra for special B&W processing.

Take a picture of a truly white object like your slate as your first photo. This can provide a color reference for your processing lab or for your own printing.

You can also get your film scanned to photoCD's. This way you can access digital photography while staying with your film based camera system.

You might ask your color lab to estimate the color temperature of the scene(s) you shoot. This could guide you on color compensation filtration or even a different film type. Your film's manfacturer should have data available on color compensating as well.

 

[cummings66]

I'm using Fuji 400 speed film, it's the fastest my camera will use. It's of course C41 process. I use Kodak Professional Endura paper with Tetenal Mono Pk chemicals for the paper.

Yes, I've considered it, I've got the bulk loader for it and have done thousands of feet of Tmax, but I'd have to find a DX coded cart. for it since my camera doesn't have the manual select. I'll have to dig around but I think I have some around. I do not like the C41 B&W films myself so I'd do the real deal if I go that route. I have thought about it because there is little color here and B&W is much cheaper to process anyhow.

As an experiement I'm going to take a pic of my grey card on the surface, but I don't think that's going to help much since I did something very similar with poor results, but maybe the actual card will help and I can analyze the neg. based on that portion. I've tried a strobe but the water is so dense with matter that all you end up with is a bright picture of the flash and not even the dust like stuff. This is in water with 5 to 15 foot vis and I know that's got a lot to do with it, and I'm beginning to believe B&W is the only answer because the only time I see color is when I photo another diver wearing a drysuit with bright vivid colors and then they come out muted.

So the issue is one of I can't really use a lens filter on the camera because I have to shoot with available light and can't afford the loss, and I'm starting to think in a quarry around here B&W is best. Do any of you quarry divers use color and have good luck?

 

[gert7to3]

Here's a link for ISO 400 DX coded cassettes:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...=t&shs=dx+coded+cassettes&image.x=6&image.y=7

I think B&W would be the best way for you to go with this. You might try higher speed film with ISO 400 cassettes and adjust your processing accordingly. B&W film processing times are starting points. There is surprising amount latitude available with B&W processing.

Then again, grey cards are cheap. Try putting a piece of one in plastic. Shooting it at the depth you are taking all of your photos at is the only way it would be useful for color balance. Maybe just paint half your slate with about the right shade of grey. Alot of this color balance stuff is subjective.

I have done some quarry diving here in Illinois, just that odd milky shade of green all the time. Still, it's better than work.

 

[cummings66]

You're right about the greenish tint. I was thinking of bring a greycard with me but to be honest I don't think that it will work even if I did photograph it at depth. I will experiment with it just to see...

As I see it, the best I can hope for is to match the pukey green I see under water and to be honest I think I've got a print I did yesterday that worked. I entered the data into my analyzer for reference at any rate.

I did find my ISO 400 cassettes btw, but I found my local camera store quit selling bulk B&W film. You know, that used to be a staple in a college town that had photography courses. Their film section is a real let down now and I have to order online to get chems. Some day I may bite the big one and get a housing for my digital rebel but I really like doing darkroom work, especially B&W. There is just so much you can do with it, it's an art form. Of course I can do the same things with photoshop but you just don't have that chem smell...

For now my Sea & Sea camera will do fine and maybe someday I'll take a trip to the ocean where you actually see colors unlike many quarries.

For what it's worth I used to make my first photo one of the greycard so I'd have a good reference for that roll of film. Color is so much harder under water than it is above it, and to be honest color in a quarry is kind of a waste of money. A B&W photo will look so much better and lifelike if you didn't know the colors really are yuky down there.

 

[RiotNrrd]

Instead of using a grey card, but a color card with CMYK and a range of tones. Kodak makes them too.