Diver killed by propeller in Cebu

[peterbj7]

Bill - I get emails from people wanting to come and dive with me (even now after I've given up the business) who describe themselves as "advanced divers". What they mean is that they've done the PADI AOW course, and you can be at that level with just 9 dives. When I speak to them they often really do think that means they are "advanced" divers. It's really quite frightening.

Expanding that topic a bit, I often hear from divers who want to do an IDC and are struggling to make the minimum 100 dives. Or people want to do a DM course in the shortest possible time, on the basis that they will have 60 dives by the time they finish. I didn't even start my 12-month DM internship until I had about 700 dives, and I had 1300 and was a trimix diver before I considered becoming an instructor. I firmly believe there's NO substitute for time in the water.

 

[bill22]

Bill - I get emails from people wanting to come and dive with me (even now after I've given up the business) who describe themselves as "advanced divers". What they mean is that they've done the PADI AOW course, and you can be at that level with just 9 dives. When I speak to them they often really do think that means they are "advanced" divers. It's really quite frightening.

Expanding that topic a bit, I often hear from divers who want to do an IDC and are struggling to make the minimum 100 dives. Or people want to do a DM course in the shortest possible time, on the basis that they will have 60 dives by the time they finish. I didn't even start my 12-month DM internship until I had about 700 dives, and I had 1300 and was a trimix diver before I considered becoming an instructor. I firmly believe there's NO substitute for time in the water.

Yes, there was quite a discussion about that on another board that I post on... How can someone with only 9 dives be considered "Advanced"?

I've often been questioned by friends here why I haven't gotten my instructor yet. I'll do it eventually, but I don't see the hurry. I prefer to gain experience now. I had about 50 dives when I did my AOW as I recall (it was a long time ago). Around 175 when I did Rescue. I started working on DM last year and am close to completing it now. I'll be a DM with 400+ dives which is more than many instructors out there

I agree there is no substitute for time in the water, but I also believe that it will vary from one individual to another. I'm sure we both have known people who were naturals who just seemed to pick everything up with no effort. There are others who are the opposite.

One of my instructors (who is IDC Staff) tells the story about someone who he was evaluating as an Instructor candidate. They had just over the minimum 100 dives. She had such poor buoyancy skills that she couldn't do something as simple as maintain her depth at a safety stop (in no current) without hanging onto the mooring line! :shocked2: I'm sure you've seen similar things

 

[peterbj7]

I agree some people pick things up much quicker than others, and some people will never understand what's going on however many dives they have. But it's not just a question of personal development. The more dives you have, assuming they're not all easy dives in the same place, the more unexpected things will happen to you and the more you'll have to develop your own solutions. The old adage "you learn best from your own mistakes" really applies here, plus the more modern but equally valid adage that's part of IANTD dogma that "in an emergency it is the poorly learned skills that are forgotten first".

Yes, I have certainly seen instructor candidates as bad as that, and in fact possibly much worse. I have staffed IDCs when some candidates didn't come close to the standard for DM, both in diving skills and in theory. I have also seen qualified instructors I would be uncomfortable just being in the water with.

Another personal beef. It staggers me that with PADI it is possible to become an instructor without being a certified nitrox diver. I won't certify anyone at DM level unless they are nitrox qualified - not PADI standards but mine. How can anyone at a leadership level not be qualified to dive with a gas that his/her charges may be using?

 

[bill22]

I agree some people pick things up much quicker than others, and some people will never understand what's going on however many dives they have. But it's not just a question of personal development. The more dives you have, assuming they're not all easy dives in the same place, the more unexpected things will happen to you and the more you'll have to develop your own solutions. The old adage "you learn best from your own mistakes" really applies here, plus the more modern but equally valid adage that's part of IANTD dogma that "in an emergency it is the poorly learned skills that are forgotten first".

Yes, I have certainly seen instructor candidates as bad as that, and in fact possibly much worse. I have staffed IDCs when some candidates didn't come close to the standard for DM, both in diving skills and in theory. I have also seen qualified instructors I would be uncomfortable just being in the water with.

Another personal beef. It staggers me that with PADI it is possible to become an instructor without being a certified nitrox diver. I won't certify anyone at DM level unless they are nitrox qualified - not PADI standards but mine. How can anyone at a leadership level not be qualified to dive with a gas that his/her charges may be using?

That was one of the same points that my friend made. It's not just time spent underwater, but what the actual experience is. If all a persons dives have been made going to resorts where they hold your hand the whole time, what is the actual quality of their experience?

It seems that more and more instructors are raising the bar on a personal level for the students they certify. I've been fortunate to have had very good instructors

 

[peterbj7]

Bill - a further point. I've instructed in a number of sports and I've been taught in a number of others, demanding and sometimes dangerous sports, and I don't think it's adequate for an instructor to be teaching at the maximum level he's reached as a diver. In diving I've tried to be at least a couple of significant levels above the level I've tried to teach at. For example, by the time I taught my first OW course I was already an advanced OC trimix diver and a CCR diver.

As to instructors unilaterally deciding to raise the bar, the standards promulgated by most recreational diving agencies have IMO dropped way too far, and responsible instructors have to try to plug some of the gaps they see.

 

[bill22]

Bill - a further point. I've instructed in a number of sports and I've been taught in a number of others, demanding and sometimes dangerous sports, and I don't think it's adequate for an instructor to be teaching at the maximum level he's reached as a diver. In diving I've tried to be at least a couple of significant levels above the level I've tried to teach at. For example, by the time I taught my first OW course I was already an advanced OC trimix diver and a CCR diver.

As to instructors unilaterally deciding to raise the bar, the standards promulgated by most recreational diving agencies have IMO dropped way too far, and responsible instructors have to try to plug some of the gaps they see.

Good advice... I'm looking at doing some Tech courses myself when I get to Guam. I'll likely go instructor at some point, but I'm in no particular hurry

 

[Gilligan]

I never listen to the DMs during the briefing - too BOOOOOORING. I've got too much money coming out of my ears that I can't hear him what he's saying.

Obviously it's up to the DM to baby sit me when I'm in the water. What am I paying him for?

Rich divers have the money to do whatever they want. But why would I want to spend P400 ($8) on a safety balloon? The DM should have one.

It's NOT up to the dive shop to provide them with any safety equipment - if the DM didn't have the safety equipment already then they shouldn't have hired him in the first place.

I think it's great that you're comparing the Philippines to the US and Europe. I don't know why can't this country can't be more like them.

I can only believe you are not a real person on this forums as indicated by your posting and your bio. You are for sure a mythical member.

I'll tell you what I think of you anyway:

Your statement is so typical of a spoiled individual from a developed nation like mine, the USA, where the bumper sticker says it all, "It's all about me". If you were real and in the Philippines I can only hope they would deport you back to your fantasy world where so many people believe they are entitled to a perfect life.

 

[bill22]

I can only believe you are not a real person on this forums as indicated by your posting and your bio. You are for sure a mythical member.

I'll tell you what I think of you anyway:

Your statement is so typical of a spoiled individual from a developed nation like mine, the USA, where the bumper sticker says it all, "It's all about me". If you were real and in the Philippines I can only hope they would deport you back to your fantasy world where so many people believe they are entitled to a perfect life.

hey bro

I'm "pretty sure" this was a satirical, tounge in cheek, post.... that was designed to make the exact point that you are making

I to am sometimes aghast at the attitude exhibited by citizens of some of the more "developed" countries.

 

[peterbj7]

Don't feed the troll!

 

[Asia Dive Paradise]

buy the SMB, they are always good to at least have on hand.

In South Leyte, we are not allowed to do reefcheck with out our SMB. 2dives a day, whole week, and 3dives on Saturdays, for 1 and half month.

Now I am in Manila, I need one. Any Sausage up for adoption???

It will go well with my vintage regulator and bc.