How to pick a BP/W?

[cool_hardware52]

Now, lets say someone needs to get you out of your rig. They could cut you out, provided there was a cutting instrument they could find easily that can cut it. Of course I'm not a big fan of people coming at me with sharp instruments

**Why** you would ever need to have somebody else cut you out of your harness on dry land is beyond me.

My guess is you have never used a Hogarthian Harness. You are not bolted into a hog harness, it just slips on and off.

These type of discussions rate right up there with how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.........

Tobin

 

[mikemill]

If you read the previous posts in this thread you would see where I already said I haven't. See how I'm being straight forward with my posts. I'm simply posing situations.

And did I say anything about needing to be cut out on dry land? I said needed to get you out of the rig, which could be on dry land, on the surface, on a boat, etc.

If you don't wish to answer legit questions then fine, just don't respond.

 

[cool_hardware52]

If you read the previous posts in this thread you would see where I already said I haven't. See how I'm being straight forward with my posts. I'm simply posing situations.

And did I say anything about needing to be cut out on dry land? I said needed to get you out of the rig, which could be on dry land, on the surface, on a boat, etc.

If you don't wish to answer legit questions then fine, just don't respond.

Hypothetical questions posed by somebody that's never used the gear in question are kinda pointless.

How about 2 broken arms, 2 broken legs while under attack by a land shark....

I'd speculate that explosive bolts at all harness connection points actuated by mind control alone would be the hot ticket.....

Tobin

 

[RAWalker]

I teach all my courses in BP/W, with single-piece harness. I demonstrate kit remove and replace underwater and on the surface to my OW students. They perform those skills also, whilst wearing the same gear. I also teach kit remove and replace for tech students.

Never had a problem with it. Neither do my students.

You aren't teaching your students to handle the same gear when boat diving and they surface to find the weather has suddenly changed for the worse. A 2-3' chop with a boat and water moving violently sure does make dealing with gear on the surface and safely getting back on board a boat a much more difficult situation and one that is quite hazardous.
Real life conditions are not completely emulated during OW training but experienced divers should be prepared for them. Students generally perform the skills needed to get their certifications without complaining. They want to get it over and move on to the more enjoyable dives. Being able to do a skill under normal conditions will get them a cert card but what about their performance under pressure in conditions that are more extreme?
Many dive shops won't allow instructors to teach in a BP&W they want the instructor in a mainstream jacket style BCD with integrated weight.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the 1 piece harness. What I am saying is more thought and discussion is needed before before eliminating harness styles with a release.
Very few releases just break during a dive. If tanks are being dropped on them while on the surface then that is a problem with those handling the equipment. That isn't a failure of the device but negligence in caring for it. Those breakages should be found during equipment checks before becoming a mid dive hazard.

 

[mikemill]

Hypothetical questions posed by somebody that's never used the gear in question are kinda pointless.

How about 2 broken arms, 2 broken legs while under attack by a land shark....

I'd speculate that explosive bolts at all harness connection points actuated by mind control alone would be the hot ticket.....

Tobin

I have quite literally crawled out of a surf area and needed to get out of my rig so I could stand up. I simply choose to think about possible accidents (and really hurting a hand or arm isn't that unlikely) and how to address them.

On a boat dive a few months back they had to get a diver out of his gear while on the surface.

So I don't think any of the situations I've asked about are hypothetical or far fetched.

As for not diving the gear: I dive a BP/W with a Dive Rite harness. I'm simply asking those who use the single piece harness how the different harness style compares in those situations.

 

[elan]

If you read the previous posts in this thread you would see where I already said I haven't. See how I'm being straight forward with my posts. I'm simply posing situations.

And did I say anything about needing to be cut out on dry land? I said needed to get you out of the rig, which could be on dry land, on the surface, on a boat, etc.

If you don't wish to answer legit questions then fine, just don't respond.

No problems, not harder than the poodle jacket. with doubles I do this if I do not have anything I can stand them on: lay on my back (on the tanks). make sure the wing is deflated, open the buckle, slide the crotch strap out and just get out of the sholder straps. When the wing is totally deflated it's easy to get out of the shoulder straps, Especially on the dry land on the back.

 

[Gombessa]

In both cases it seems that a clip that can be undone, one handed, with minimal effort is preferable.

Cutting a harness, in reality, is getting pretty serious. Some people, like Tobin, carry very sharp cutting implements that make this a breeze (if you don't have a sharp knife, yes it can take a while). But to me the question is, how much of a priority is it to plan to flop out of high surf and lie next to the harness you've un-quick-released, panting and out of breath, cause you've used all your energy getting out?

I can understand for a lot of people it sounds like a clear safe-versus-dangerous issue, and if that's the case, they should just go for the comfort harness and have piece of mind. I've come to a different conclusion myself - to get the advantages of a continuous harness on every dive I make, plan carefully to avoid emergency situations, and have a contingency (e.g., a sharp knife) that will quickly release me in the unlikely but possible case that such an emergency does arise.

 

[elan]

you suppose to avoid emergency situations and have a sharp cutting tool no matter what kind of harness you have, do not you ?

 

[Gombessa]

you suppose to avoid emergency situations and have a sharp cutting tool no matter what kind of harness you have, do not you ?

Definitely! And to the logical end, if you plan well ahead, and have a sufficient contingency, the "get out of your gear in an emergency" rationale for quick releases doesn't hold much water (at least for me), as the risk/reward goes way down.

If, as someone above said, "they just prefer the comfort harness," that's totally great, it's what they should use.

 

[mikemill]

Cutting a harness, in reality, is getting pretty serious. Some people, like Tobin, carry very sharp cutting implements that make this a breeze (if you don't have a sharp knife, yes it can take a while). But to me the question is, how much of a priority is it to plan to flop out of high surf and lie next to the harness you've un-quick-released, panting and out of breath, cause you've used all your energy getting out?

I can understand for a lot of people it sounds like a clear safe-versus-dangerous issue, and if that's the case, they should just go for the comfort harness and have piece of mind. I've come to a different conclusion myself - to get the advantages of a continuous harness on every dive I make, plan carefully to avoid emergency situations, and have a contingency (e.g., a sharp knife) that will quickly release me in the unlikely but possible case that such an emergency does arise.

As far as just plan exhausted, not much of a priority. Limited use of a arm/hand a bit more for me. I sometimes get a nerve pinch (or at least that is what I think it is) that makes the use of a hand or arm painful for a bit. So I definitely wouldn't want that to cause an issue.

you suppose to avoid emergency situations and have a sharp cutting tool no matter what kind of harness you have, do not you ?

True. At the same time we should plan for emergency situations as much as possible.
As for the cutting tool... I have to admit to leaving mine on the surface more than once. I really need to investigate some better tools for that. The knife I have is great but it just don't fit into my gear configuration well.


I'll have to find one of the Norcal guys with an extra single piece harness that'll let me try it out for a dive or two.