S Drill Etiquette

[TSandM]

Wayne, have you ever had a regulator which was secured in a protected place, which breathed fine in pre-dive, show up with an unusable malfunction at depth? I'm not talking about deco regs . . . they really aren't secured safely, and because the tank is carried with the valve closed, they can depressurize and extrude o-rings and all kinds of ugliness. I'm talking about a secondary regulator on your primary gear, which was checked for mouthpiece problems and loose zipties and breathed in the water before the dive, and turns out to be unusable later. I'd be really interested in any kind of malfunction that could show up that way.

 

[Saltwater Junky]

Thinking out of the box....in the situation of the OOA diver has my working reg, the only function reg between the two of us, and the OOA diver refuses to share I'd do 1 of 2 things.
1. Reach around and turn off air.
2. Remove BC then turn air off.

In either case, I'd simply wait the 1-2 secs it'll take the OOA diver to spit out my reg. Grasp reg insert into my mouth, turn on air, purge reg, then breath.

If you don't like that approach you can simply bean the SOB over the head and "wrassle" the reg from him and watch him bullet to the surface.
:devil3:

 

[DaleC]

Man am I glad I dive independant doubles. The odds that a diver will have the only working reg is pretty low for me.

 

[DCBC]

Wayne, have you ever had a regulator which was secured in a protected place, which breathed fine in pre-dive, show up with an unusable malfunction at depth? I'm not talking about deco regs . . . they really aren't secured safely, and because the tank is carried with the valve closed, they can depressurize and extrude o-rings and all kinds of ugliness. I'm talking about a secondary regulator on your primary gear, which was checked for mouthpiece problems and loose zipties and breathed in the water before the dive, and turns out to be unusable later. I'd be really interested in any kind of malfunction that could show up that way.

No. I have had a secondary that had a diaphram malfunction on the second dive of the day during the pre-dine inspection. I had previously tested it on the first dive and it was fine.

I've had a friend that experienced a problem that he noticed at the end of the dive. He checked it before the dive and at the end of the dive turned he off the valve and pushed his secondary to take off the pressure in the regulator and noticed the diaphram in the secondary had become unseated.

I've also known panicky divers to drive their finger so hard into the purge button to clear the regulator that they separated the diaphram making the second stage useless.

I'm just not willing to bet my life that a secondary will work when it's needed. I know in my mind that it should, but I've been taught that things can go wrong and Murphy's always looking over my shoulder.

 

[spectrum]

The only problem with that logic is exactly why you donate your primary because you know it is working and you have it in your hand controlling the situation should you need to buddy breath, if you hand your safe second to an OOG diver and it doesn't function you have the potential of going from a stressed situation to a panic situation and a wrestling match.

The logic TS&M outlined in post 71 applies regardless of storage location of the alternate second stage.

 

[spectrum]

Hmm, looks like you hit one of my hot buttons when you quoted that "rule". I didn't mean to come on so strong, but I do think it's an unrealistic expectation.

It May be a hot button for you but as I recall it was pretty much verbatim that way in my Rescue Diver class. Now there is always the caveat of what would you really do and that is largely scenario dependent for most.

 

[Rainer]

I'm just not willing to bet my life that a secondary will work when it's needed.

Regardless of what you donate, if the secondary isn't working, you're going to be buddy breathing (at least in a team of two).

The central issue is simply one of whose need for gas is more crucial at the moment of the OOG. I contend it's the diver who is actually OOG. Getting him a 100% known working regulator is paramount. If my secondary turns out not to be working, fine, we'll handle that in turn (just as we would if your octo didn't work). Your method, however, would have the OOG diver waiting even longer (and you'd now be donating your primary to a *really* panicked diver). Best to avoid all this panic and give up the known working regulator from the start. There's a reason this method has been adopted by basically every technical diving agency in existence.

If you're not comfortable without a regulator for a short while, you probably should find a new hobby.

 

[InTheDrink]

One lesson I've learned is that you cannot depend on an OOG diver to assist you, nor can you bet your life on the fact that all the problems will be solved once he has gas.

I think that's something people should bear in mind. Good chance the OOG didn't happen in isolation so it may not be your only challenge.

With regard to primary Vs secondary donation: I think you make very valid points DCBC however for me, the part that I never liked about donating an ocotpus is that they tend to be somewhat poorly behaved in terms of position and I feel there is genuine risk in someone, whether donor or receiver fumbling in a stressful situation trying to find a backup somewhere. I'm pretty sure Lamont witnessed a fatality because of a diver that could not unloosen the donor's secondary (please correct me someone if I'm wrong).

I like donating primary and having my backup under my chin. For me, it really really feels right - I feel very secure in this solution, much more so than the octopus alternative. It has some drawbacks, sure, but not in an OOG situation as far as my limited experienced is concerned.

Cheers,
J

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm pretty sure Lamont witnessed a fatality because of a diver that could not unloosen the donor's secondary (please correct me someone if I'm wrong).

J

More than witnessed ... he was involved in the rescue attempt. But that octo was attached in a way that no agency would approve of (boltsnapped to a D-ring). Complicate that with a dark environment, what was almost certainly a total siltout once the OOG took place, and a victim who had a history of being excitable ... it's perhaps not a good example of the advantages/disadvantages of one reg configuration over another ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rainer]

I'd say it's a great example of the disadvantages of one particular configuration...

it's perhaps not a good example of the advantages/disadvantages of one reg configuration over another ...