OP
Heavy water
Registered
- Messages
- 56
- Reaction score
- 0
- # of dives
- I'm a Fish!
Wow !!!!!!! This is getting intense!!!!:shocked2::shocked2:
Your big fat pony Bottle
- Thread starter Heavy water
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Wow !!!!!!! This is getting intense!!!!:shocked2::shocked2:
The only time I use my pony (40 cf) is when I am pushing the envelope solo; it is just for me so it is not detachable.
By the time I am at 500 psi on my primary tank I am likely at <40' fsw due to the fact that I am not letting my Suunto Viper go into deco. Since I am not in deco, I could use the 500 psi (in a 100 or 120 cft) to do my ascent and SS, without touching my pony, or I could easily continue diving "on the pony" at <40 fsw and stay out of computer deco while extending the time underwater up to 30 minutes.
Both tanks usually have the same mix, but even if the pony is 32% and the 120 is air, I rarely go deeper than 1.6 for 32%, which is the working ppo2 I am trained for.
I guess it is a pony until I breath off it and then magically becomes a stage
By the time I am at 500 psi on my primary tank I am likely at <40' fsw due to the fact that I am not letting my Suunto Viper go into deco. Since I am not in deco, I could use the 500 psi (in a 100 or 120 cft) to do my ascent and SS, without touching my pony, or I could easily continue diving "on the pony" at <40 fsw and stay out of computer deco while extending the time underwater up to 30 minutes.
Both tanks usually have the same mix, but even if the pony is 32% and the 120 is air, I rarely go deeper than 1.6 for 32%, which is the working ppo2 I am trained for.
I guess it is a pony until I breath off it and then magically becomes a stage
LeadTurn_SD
Contributor
halemanō;5373494:I guess it is a pony until I breath off it and then magically becomes a stage
I'm a magician too, I guess
Exactly as halemano described, at the end of a great dive in shallow water and well within NDL, I'll use my AL30 to "extend" the dive if there is lots of cool stuff to see... again, we are talking about tropical reef that is 15-20 feet deep, so it is sort of an extended "safety stop"
So I've also been known to "transform" a pony :tinkerbell: into a stage...
But yes, I understand and agree with the standard definitions of pony, stage, deco bottle, etc.
Best wishes.
Chris12day
Contributor
I carry a 19cf detachable tank with its own regulator and pressure gauge filled with "air". I have only trained using it when ending a dive when both my buddy and I have enough air or nitrox to make a half depth 1 minute stop and full 3 minute safety stops. Only NDL dives.
Ya see. If they don't get your metaphors, they just go pedantic on ya.
Oh well, can't complain too much, have missed the occasional joke &/or gone pedantic myself from time to time.
Training is one thing. Remember SACs can double or triple during an incident, especially the initial stages.
The only way is to do it properly - the correct calculations to work out your own SAC and a stressed SAC.
The only way is to do it properly - the correct calculations to work out your own SAC and a stressed SAC.
Generally, that's a generalization.
Round here it's not uncommon to carry a stage bottle for a shallower portion of a multilevel wreck dive in order to extend the dive by switching to a richer mix when coming shallower. Often this offers the opportunity to significantly extend bottom time while avoiding/limiting deco obligation as well:
Here's a dive on the Stolt or Algol here off NJ with EANx 28 back gas...
Dec to 130ft (2) Nitrox 28 50ft/min descent.
Level 130ft 17:24 (20) Nitrox 28 1.35 ppO2, 115ft ead
Asc to 80ft (21) Nitrox 28 -30ft/min ascent.
Level 80ft 30:00 (51) Nitrox 28 0.94 ppO2, 70ft ead
Asc to 20ft (53) Nitrox 28 -30ft/min ascent.
Stop at 20ft 21:20 (75) Nitrox 28 0.45 ppO2, 15ft ead
Surface (75) Nitrox 28 -30ft/min ascent.
Here's the same dive with a staged bottle of EANx 40...
Dec to 130ft (2) Nitrox 28 50ft/min descent.
Level 130ft 17:24 (20) Nitrox 28 1.35 ppO2, 115ft ead
Asc to 80ft (21) Nitrox 28 -30ft/min ascent.
Level 80ft 30:00 (51) Nitrox 40 1.34 ppO2, 53ft ead
Asc to 20ft (53) Nitrox 40 -30ft/min ascent.
Stop at 20ft 3:20 (57) Nitrox 40 0.64 ppO2, 7ft ead
Surface (57) Nitrox 40 -30ft/min ascent.
Certainly worth staging a tank of 40% in order to shave 18min of deco off your hang, especially if the water is cold and/or choppy - which it usually is here.
In fact, staging and switching to 40% at 80ft lets you out of the water faster than if you carried 02 for deco...
Dec to 130ft (2) Nitrox 28 50ft/min descent.
Level 130ft 17:24 (20) Nitrox 28 1.35 ppO2, 115ft ead
Asc to 80ft (21) Nitrox 28 -30ft/min ascent.
Level 80ft 30:00 (51) Nitrox 28 0.94 ppO2, 70ft ead
Asc to 20ft (53) Nitrox 28 -30ft/min ascent.
Stop at 20ft 7:20 (61) Oxygen 1.59 ppO2, 0ft ead
Surface (61) Oxygen -30ft/min ascent.
As I learned during both my US Public Safety Diver and my UK HSE courses - SAC can easily go up 7-fold or more when physically stressed (not even necessarily mentally stressed). There have been many instances of would be but untrained rescuers drowning when they would have thought they had plenty of air.
- Messages
- 735
- Reaction score
- 65
- # of dives
- I just don't log dives
I had this discussion on another board. My pony is detachable, but I can't come up with a reason to ever pass it. Here are the buddy scenarios I came up with:
Scenario 1: Untrained blue water diver bolts to the surface. I ascend normally.
Scenario 2: Moderately trained diver comes over in a panic, attacks me from behind, and rips the reg out of my mouth. I switch to backup, we ascend. If panicky buddy sucks down my back gas too fast, I switch to pony. Upon reaching surface, I consider whacking instabuddy with pony bottle.
Scenario 3: Buddy indicates low air or needs to share air. I give them long hose and switch to backup. We ascend. If my gas starts to run low, I switch to pony.
None of those scenarios have me giving away the pony. In an emergency situation if it gets the other diver to the surface - they can have it. But, I just don't see them coming over and trying to steal my pony - a device they are probably unfamiliar with and may not even know where to find the reg for it.
Scenario 1: Untrained blue water diver bolts to the surface. I ascend normally.
Scenario 2: Moderately trained diver comes over in a panic, attacks me from behind, and rips the reg out of my mouth. I switch to backup, we ascend. If panicky buddy sucks down my back gas too fast, I switch to pony. Upon reaching surface, I consider whacking instabuddy with pony bottle.
Scenario 3: Buddy indicates low air or needs to share air. I give them long hose and switch to backup. We ascend. If my gas starts to run low, I switch to pony.
None of those scenarios have me giving away the pony. In an emergency situation if it gets the other diver to the surface - they can have it. But, I just don't see them coming over and trying to steal my pony - a device they are probably unfamiliar with and may not even know where to find the reg for it.
My definitions:
Pony bottle - a small bottle, typically under 30 cft carried by a recreational diver as an emergency gas supply. The gas should be breathable at any recreational depth and the bottle should be able to be ditched or handed off in the event of an emergency. Seems to be most commonly used by divers who don't practice good buddy skills and want the security of a separate gas supply. The gas in this bottle should not be considered as part of the usable gas in your dive plan. It is for emergency use only.
Buddy bottle - larger bottle, carried by solo divers as a method of redundancy. Typically it will be close to the same size as their primary bottle. The gas in this bottle should not be considered as part of the usable gas in your dive plan. It is for emergency use only.
Bailout bottle - carried by rebreather divers in the event of a CCR emergency. Size and content of bailout bottles will vary with the dive plan. Due to the complexity of some CCR dives, multiple bailout bottles may be carried on a single dive. Typical sizes range from 30cft to 80cft and are usually aluminum. Dive planning should allow a CCR diver enough bailout to safely return to the surface from their point of max depth/penetration/deco obligation.
Bailout may also be carried by commercial divers doing hard hat operations to allow them to return to the surface in the event of an umbilical failure.
Deco bottles - contain an oxygen rich gas compared to the bottom mix. Dives may require multiple deco gasses and typical bottle sizes range from 30cft to 80 cft. Depending on the dive, these gases could be Nitrox, Oxygen, Heliox, or even a Trimix blend. Gas planning usually involves contingency for the loss of one deco gas. The purpose of a deco gas is to speed up the off gassing process whenever a dive plan calls for mandatory decompression stops.
Travel Gas - is a gas typically used on very deep dives where backgas/main gas supply is unbreathable at the surface due to low oxygen content. It is used to allow the diver to safely get to depth where their backgas will support life and it may double as a deco gas.
Stage bottles - extra bottles carried by a diver to provide additional gas for extended depth or penetration in overhead environments. Gases are chosen for the depth they will be used at and contingency for the loss of a stage is taken into consideration when planning the dive. Typically they will be the same gas as your primary supply, but there may be some exceptions to this. (i.e. multilevel cave).
Argon bottle - small (6-13 cft) bottle carried by dry divers as a separate gas supply for their drysuit. Typically used when their main gas supply is helium as many people feel that Argon provides extra thermal protection over lighter gasses. In lieu of Argon, some divers elect to use plain air. Argon is not breathable and should never by plumbed with a second stage regulator.
Spare Air - small (3-6 cft) cylinder with a built in second stage that allows a diver to breathe directly from the cylinder. Do a search on it if you wish to discuss the merits/detriments of it.
Did I miss any?
Pony bottle - a small bottle, typically under 30 cft carried by a recreational diver as an emergency gas supply. The gas should be breathable at any recreational depth and the bottle should be able to be ditched or handed off in the event of an emergency. Seems to be most commonly used by divers who don't practice good buddy skills and want the security of a separate gas supply. The gas in this bottle should not be considered as part of the usable gas in your dive plan. It is for emergency use only.
Buddy bottle - larger bottle, carried by solo divers as a method of redundancy. Typically it will be close to the same size as their primary bottle. The gas in this bottle should not be considered as part of the usable gas in your dive plan. It is for emergency use only.
Bailout bottle - carried by rebreather divers in the event of a CCR emergency. Size and content of bailout bottles will vary with the dive plan. Due to the complexity of some CCR dives, multiple bailout bottles may be carried on a single dive. Typical sizes range from 30cft to 80cft and are usually aluminum. Dive planning should allow a CCR diver enough bailout to safely return to the surface from their point of max depth/penetration/deco obligation.
Bailout may also be carried by commercial divers doing hard hat operations to allow them to return to the surface in the event of an umbilical failure.
Deco bottles - contain an oxygen rich gas compared to the bottom mix. Dives may require multiple deco gasses and typical bottle sizes range from 30cft to 80 cft. Depending on the dive, these gases could be Nitrox, Oxygen, Heliox, or even a Trimix blend. Gas planning usually involves contingency for the loss of one deco gas. The purpose of a deco gas is to speed up the off gassing process whenever a dive plan calls for mandatory decompression stops.
Travel Gas - is a gas typically used on very deep dives where backgas/main gas supply is unbreathable at the surface due to low oxygen content. It is used to allow the diver to safely get to depth where their backgas will support life and it may double as a deco gas.
Stage bottles - extra bottles carried by a diver to provide additional gas for extended depth or penetration in overhead environments. Gases are chosen for the depth they will be used at and contingency for the loss of a stage is taken into consideration when planning the dive. Typically they will be the same gas as your primary supply, but there may be some exceptions to this. (i.e. multilevel cave).
Argon bottle - small (6-13 cft) bottle carried by dry divers as a separate gas supply for their drysuit. Typically used when their main gas supply is helium as many people feel that Argon provides extra thermal protection over lighter gasses. In lieu of Argon, some divers elect to use plain air. Argon is not breathable and should never by plumbed with a second stage regulator.
Spare Air - small (3-6 cft) cylinder with a built in second stage that allows a diver to breathe directly from the cylinder. Do a search on it if you wish to discuss the merits/detriments of it.
Did I miss any?
Last edited:
Similar threads
