out-of-shape divers doing things like diving the doria

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To put this in perspective, the average person who runs an 8 minute mile is at 12 METS. 13 METS is achieved when the time is usually between 6 & 7 minutes.

Although it's best to have every diver in good condition from a medical perspective, I question if this is a very practical standard. Today scuba is enjoyed by people as young as 10 and as old as 80+. These people seldom have the capability to run a 6 minute mile, nor is this a reasonable expectation imo.

http://www.cardiology.org/recentpapers/QUESTJM.PDF

You don't need to run a 7 or 8 minute mile to reach 13 METS on treadmill stress test.
I struggle to run an 11 minute mile. I couldn't run a 7 minute mile 30 years ago. All it is is a comparaison. It simply determines how efficiently your body is using oxygen. I do the stress test every year and I usually achieve 16 to 19 METS which usually is 9 to 9.5 minutes on the Bruce 4 protocol test. I did 9.75 minutes this year.
 
DAN recommends a cardiovascular fitness level of 13 METS exercise tolerance, as evidenced by a normal stress EKG test (13 mets or stage 4 of the Bruce protocol ce stress test.

To put this in perspective, the average person who runs an 8 minute mile is at 12 METS. 13 METS is achieved when the time is usually between 6 & 7 minutes.

Although it's best to have every diver in good condition from a medical perspective, I question if this is a very practical standard. Today scuba is enjoyed by people as young as 10 and as old as 80+. These people seldom have the capability to run a 6 minute mile, nor is this a reasonable expectation imo.

http://www.cardiology.org/recentpapers/QUESTJM.PDF

Hmmm ... according to the linked study, 13 METS is defined as "Any competitive activity, including those that involve intermittent sprinting - running competitively, rowing competitively, bicycle riding".

So anybody who doesn't compete in some sporting activity should be barred from diving?

What, exactly, is DAN trying to accomplish with that recommendation? Turn diving into another competitive sport? That is just wrong.

The longer I dive ... the more I learn ... the more I question some of the conclusions that come from that organization. I have to wonder what their agenda is, who's driving it, and why.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
The longer I dive ... the more I learn ... the more I question some of the conclusions that come from that organization. I have to wonder what their agenda is, who's driving it, and why.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I gave up on them years ago. I also question any diver that takes "their" word as law.
 
Hmmm ... according to the linked study, 13 METS is defined as "Any competitive activity, including those that involve intermittent sprinting - running competitively, rowing competitively, bicycle riding".

So anybody who doesn't compete in some sporting activity should be barred from diving?

What, exactly, is DAN trying to accomplish with that recommendation? Turn diving into another competitive sport? That is just wrong.

The longer I dive ... the more I learn ... the more I question some of the conclusions that come from that organization. I have to wonder what their agenda is, who's driving it, and why.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Read my last post, It simply measures how efficiently you use oxygen, it doesn't measure how far or fast you can run or do any physical activity. That comes from training the muscles for a particular activity.

The test begins at a slow walk. Every few 10 or so seconds the speed and incline of the treadmill increases. You don't reach a point where the speed is fast enough to begin running until the last couple of minutes but you are running up hill. The object is to see how long you can go until you are completely out of breath or you reach a target heart rate usually determined by your age. My legs usually give out before I am out of breath but I usually exceed my target heart rate.
 
The longer I dive ... the more I learn ... the more I question some of the conclusions that come from that organization. I have to wonder what their agenda is, who's driving it, and why.
Advising divers to be fit seems quite consistent with their stated mission:

Divers Alert Network (DAN) is a 501(c)(3) non-profit medical and research organization dedicated to the safety and health of recreational scuba divers

Is there a hidden agenda that I'm missing?
 
While I do believe that physical fitness is an important parameter for scuba divers as is body weight, nutrition etc, nonetheless, some of the best scuba divers I have buddied with, in terms of overall competence in the water, were quite hefty. I don't think this justifies being overweight however as there are other aspects to living with obesity and being overweight aside from scuba activities such as heart disease, diabetes, insult to the joints etc. Men tend to put on those big ol' bellies, that is really bad for a person's health. Being overweight, and worse so with obesity, is a self imposed handicap on life.

I think there is a general assumption that "large" people are then by definition of being overweight, out of shape. I think this is an erroneous conclusion sometimes or at least does not take in the full picture.

Calculate Your BMI - Standard BMI Calculator

You can computer your BMI from above link. It is a useful tool. Body fat percentage is a better gauge IMO. I think my BMI is 22.0, well, since breaking my leg, the doc told me to eat more, so I have obliged :wink:.

It seems counter intuitive that some divers go on so about safety, training, team work etc and yet present themselves for the dive out of shape and overweight/obese! Where did the safety concept go? All things being equal, until proven otherwise, I am going to believe that a fit diver at a proper BMI for his/her frame is a safer diver.

N
 
Advising divers to be fit seems quite consistent with their stated mission:



Is there a hidden agenda that I'm missing?

"DURHAM, North Carolina (11 Mar 2006) -- Despite sacking former CEO Peter Bennett for alleged financial improprieties, Divers Alert Network continues to be plagued by a corrupt corporate culture, ill-advised territorial marketing schemes and lavish, wasteful spending that has earned it the dubious distinction of being rated among the worst non-profits by independent auditors.

The prestigious Charity Navigator, which is universally acknowledged as the most unbiased independent authority on non-profits and charities, has rated Divers Alert Network as an organization that "fails to meet industry standards and performs well below most charities in its Cause."

Divers Alert Network, also known as DAN, received only one star out of a possible four and received an overall score of only 37.50 in the all important "Peer Analysis" assessment.

Conversely, the Burke Medical Research Institute and Huntington Medical Research Institutes, which are both rated as peer organizations, received four stars and overall scores exceeding 60.

Although DAN is a member supported non-profit, it has steadfastly refused to reveal the financial terms of what critics describe as ousted CEO Peter Bennett's "golden parachute".

But 990 income and expense statements filed by Divers Alert Network according to laws that govern non-profits based in the United States reveal that in fiscal 2004, DAN diverted $140,000 of member fees paid to Bennett presumably as part of his "golden parachute" deal.

Another $25,000 in member fees went to Bennett's son, a former DAN vice president who no longer works for the organization.

Expenses listed in DAN's 2004 "Exempt from Income Tax" statement include over $140,000 for "former President and CEO Peter Bennett", nearly $25,000 for "former Vice President Chris Bennett" (Bennett's son), more than $100,000 each for a small army of "Vice Presidents", $80,000 for DAN's webmaster and over $3 million for the four-story 27,000-square-foot Peter B. Bennett Center, DAN's luxurious corporate headquarters paid for by member fees.

New Deck, Same Old Dirty Cards

Although DAN board members finally prevailed and ousted Peter Bennett, they failed to clean house. Bennett's right-hand man Dan Orr and left-hand man Chris Wachhoz still hold key positions in the organization although both were implicated in Bennett's financial shenanigans.

Orr along with Bennett and DAN attorney Wes Covington were investigated for lining their pockets with profits from AGI, DAN's off-shore for-profit insurance spin-off located in the Cayman Islands.

Wachholz got his chunk of the cash cow when Bennett and Covington cut him in on another insurance spinoff called Travelers Emergency Network, a Divers Alert Network clone aimed at travelers.

Together, Orr and Wachholz pocket more than a third of a million dollars annually from DAN member fees and donations."

...but that's just opinion...check the facts yourself.
 
"DURHAM, North Carolina (11 Mar 2006) -- Despite sacking former CEO Peter Bennett for alleged financial improprieties, Divers Alert Network continues to be plagued by a corrupt corporate culture, ill-advised territorial marketing schemes and lavish, wasteful spending that has earned it the dubious distinction of being rated among the worst non-profits by independent auditors.

The prestigious Charity Navigator, which is universally acknowledged as the most unbiased independent authority on non-profits and charities, has rated Divers Alert Network as an organization that "fails to meet industry standards and performs well below most charities in its Cause."

Divers Alert Network, also known as DAN, received only one star out of a possible four and received an overall score of only 37.50 in the all important "Peer Analysis" assessment.

Conversely, the Burke Medical Research Institute and Huntington Medical Research Institutes, which are both rated as peer organizations, received four stars and overall scores exceeding 60.

Although DAN is a member supported non-profit, it has steadfastly refused to reveal the financial terms of what critics describe as ousted CEO Peter Bennett's "golden parachute".

But 990 income and expense statements filed by Divers Alert Network according to laws that govern non-profits based in the United States reveal that in fiscal 2004, DAN diverted $140,000 of member fees paid to Bennett presumably as part of his "golden parachute" deal.

Another $25,000 in member fees went to Bennett's son, a former DAN vice president who no longer works for the organization.

Expenses listed in DAN's 2004 "Exempt from Income Tax" statement include over $140,000 for "former President and CEO Peter Bennett", nearly $25,000 for "former Vice President Chris Bennett" (Bennett's son), more than $100,000 each for a small army of "Vice Presidents", $80,000 for DAN's webmaster and over $3 million for the four-story 27,000-square-foot Peter B. Bennett Center, DAN's luxurious corporate headquarters paid for by member fees.

New Deck, Same Old Dirty Cards

Although DAN board members finally prevailed and ousted Peter Bennett, they failed to clean house. Bennett's right-hand man Dan Orr and left-hand man Chris Wachhoz still hold key positions in the organization although both were implicated in Bennett's financial shenanigans.

Orr along with Bennett and DAN attorney Wes Covington were investigated for lining their pockets with profits from AGI, DAN's off-shore for-profit insurance spin-off located in the Cayman Islands.

Wachholz got his chunk of the cash cow when Bennett and Covington cut him in on another insurance spinoff called Travelers Emergency Network, a Divers Alert Network clone aimed at travelers.

Together, Orr and Wachholz pocket more than a third of a million dollars annually from DAN member fees and donations."

...but that's just opinion...check the facts yourself.

And how does encouraging divers to be fit an indication of corruption or a corrupt practice..
 
Old news, Tropicalwolf, and I have posted on that issue a number of times myself (here and here, with this link) to throw some cold water on the DAN love-fests that seem to spontaneously arise around here pretty regularly. The question is, how is DAN advocating fitness for divers inconsistent with their stated mission?
 
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Old news, Tropicalwolf, and I have posted on that issue a number of times myself to throw some cold water on the DAN love-fests that seem to spontaneously arise around here pretty regularly. The question is, how is DAN advocating fitness for divers inconsistent with their stated mission?

When did I say anything about their mission?
 
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