Ow, iow, aow

[tracydr]

I was thinking about the ongoing arguement of when to take the AOW class. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I actually didn't take AOW until I had about 150 dives, including a bunch of deep dives, night, high current and cold water dives in all parts of the world. It took getting divorced before I was able to start furthering my formal dive education.
Anyway, in some ways, I'm glad I had all that experience before doing AOW, Rescue and now DM. I shudder to think about OW divers with 4 dives under their belt going to their AOW class, maybe even directly on to Rescue and believing they are an Advanced and Rescue Diver. So, I was thinking, why not offer an "Intermediate Open Water" class that they could do right out of the gates to satisfy that urge. Than specify a certain number of dives, let's say 25, before taking Advanced.
I realize it's another silly card but it could change a diver's mindset for the better and possibly keep them from going beyond their training limits by doing too much too soon, just because they think they are " Advanced" divers. Intermediate Diver just makes it sound a bit more subdued and also characterizes their true experience level better to the DM on a charter, who has no way to differentiate one AOW from another.

 

[Cave Diver]

You'll have as many different answers as you do divers.

I took AOW immediately after my OW class. I also took it concurrently with a Nitrox class, followed rapidly by Rescue.

The opportunities for diving where I live are limited. Most of it consists of spearfishing on oil rigs in the Gulf and I wanted to absorb as much knowledge as I could before jumping into that. Taking the additional classes gave me that, plus we got some more time in the water under the supervision of an instructor. I think it really all depends on the person and situation.

 

[jon1]

I got my OW and AOW within one month. I agree that I may have rushed into it, but I just sort of caught the diving bug. My thought is that you can go straight to med school right offer college, or you can get a job for a few years and get real world experience. It's all a matter of preference.

 

[lowviz]

..............
I realize it's another silly card but it could change a diver's mindset for the better and possibly keep them from going beyond their training limits by doing too much too soon, just because they think they are " Advanced" divers. Intermediate Diver just makes it sound a bit more subdued and also characterizes their true experience level better to the DM on a charter, who has no way to differentiate one AOW from another.

Excellent intentions, but the front-end requirements (OW AOW etc) are eroding as we all know. So rather than trying to stop and reverse the process, how about adding "Procedures" certs. to the other end? Something with a bit of meat to it that has to be demonstrated. Change the focus from acquired knowledge to demonstrated skills.

"Local Diver" with endorsements for all of your local conditions: cold, tropical coral reef, inlet, shore, local dive boats (1, 2-3, 4+), low visibility, current, pelagic (recreational diving in 'bottomless' water), etc.

"Dive Planning" know simple thirds vs. 1) halves plus rock-bottom 2) thirds plus rock-bottom from 72 to 260 cuft backgas then plan and dive your own backgas load, out-and-back exploration, single ascent/descent point gas planning vs. permissible emergency ascent at any point in dive, redundanies, your gas consumption rate range, etc.

"Deco Procedures" -we have that one, but it seems like nobody (but tech divers) takes it. Go figure, endless threads on whose DC is more or less conservative just to get closer to the NDL. With this approach, knowing what to do on the other side of the NDL is potentially valuable. BTW, you never have to put your computer into deco to pass this course -it really is aimed at recreational divers.

 

[Ana]

I think it really all depends on the person and situation.

I believe that was the typical reason until not too long ago.

Used to be that a person starts diving, then they get their certification, OW or whatever was called at the time. Then they dive and dive, until suddenly they realize one of these days they won't be allowed to do certain dives if they don't produce more plastic. It is then, when they go and get an AOW and maybe more.

I believe the race of certifications coincides with the race of lawsuits and insurance companies setting ridiculous rates for the dive operators. Probably also coincides with the time when OW divers were certified and sent on their way at the speed of light, somehow justifying the need for further instruction for anything more than a pool dive.

I know that's not the point of the thread, going back to when is the best time to get additional certifications, there is no way that one size fits all for this.
Like mentioned on a different thread, some people learn a lot in a handful of dives and others are still tripping after hundreds.
So one diver with 5 dives can be as prepared or maybe better than another one with 100 dives, to received the instruction of AOW.

We are all different, trying to set hard rules for everyone sure takes the fun out of diving. Is it a risky activity? yes... but what isn't?

 

[Ana]

Excellent intentions, but the front-end requirements (OW AOW etc) are eroding as we all know. So rather than trying to stop and reverse the process, how about adding "Procedures" certs. to the other end? Something with a bit of meat to it that has to be demonstrated. Change the focus from acquired knowledge to demonstrated skills.

"Local Diver" with endorsements for all of your local conditions: cold, tropical coral reef, inlet, shore, local dive boats (1, 2-3, 4+), low visibility, current, pelagic (recreational diving in 'bottomless' water), etc.

"Dive Planning" know simple thirds vs. 1) halves plus rock-bottom 2) thirds plus rock-bottom from 72 to 260 cuft backgas then plan and dive your own backgas load, out-and-back exploration, single ascent/descent point gas planning vs. permissible emergency ascent at any point in dive, redundanies, your gas consumption rate range, etc.

"Deco Procedures" -we have that one, but it seems like nobody (but tech divers) takes it. Go figure, endless threads on whose DC is more or less conservative just to get closer to the NDL. With this approach, knowing what to do on the other side of the NDL is potentially valuable. BTW, you never have to put your computer into deco to pass this course -it really is aimed at recreational divers.

More rules? and who's going to enforce them? Are you going to asses a fine if a diver comes back and you realized he didn't follow the rule of thirds, or whatever rule YOU decide was appropriate for the dive he did?

I can't even finish reading all your rules above without feeling like the inquisition is after me. How bout bringing back the fact that "a diver is responsible for his/her dive." NO one else is responsible.

Trying to come out with a fool-proof way to dive safely will only produce a better fool.

 

[lowviz]

More rules? and who's going to enforce them? Are you going to asses a fine if a diver comes back and you realized he didn't follow the rule of thirds, or whatever rule YOU decide was appropriate for the dive he did?

I can't even finish reading all your rules above without feeling like the inquisition is after me. How bout bringing back the fact that "a diver is responsible for his/her dive." NO one else is responsible.

Trying to come out with a fool-proof way to dive safely will only produce a better fool.

Thanks for not disappointing me, nice blast. There aren't rules other than my dive plan or the boat captains' foibles that I follow with any regularity. However, I feel that it is important to be exposed to the best collection of knowledge and experience that is available in order to make my own decisions. Thus, a few suggestions for increasing the options for dive education.

Trying to come out with a fool-proof way to dive safely will only produce a better fool.

Excellent advice for all of us fools who head out under a small-craft advisory to snag a solo dive or two before things get ugly.

<I thought you are (or were) an instructor? Are you lax enough that your students don't see you as the inquisitor?>

 

[RU4SKUBA]

Why do we constantly blame the agency or instructor for the failings of our students who show up without having read the material or completed knowledge reviews, pay little attention in class, retain little of what they've learned, and make the instructor repeat everything 3-4 times to get it straight?

Personally I think we blame the agency and instructor because we cannot possibly admit half our students are unsuited for the sport and learn at a sixth grade level.

 

[Divedoggie]

There is risk involved with diving beyond one's level of training. Why not take the AOW and Rescue classes as soon as possible? Then the next 100 dives are done with some knowledge, technique, and competence. The educated new diver still "needs the miles" to develop muscle memory and proficiency, but are going to be far ahead of the trial by fire diver.

Even a rudimentary AOW course gives the new diver challenges to work on in her/his diving. It opens the mind to possibilities in diving and may be the difference between staying with the activity or never diving again. In areas like Colorado, where I live, taking a course like AOW creates a rare dive opportunity. The newish diver who did a local AOW course will head to her/his vacation destination better prepared.

The AOW University course that I teach is 8 weeks long, but a more streamlined version(3 three hour sessions, 2 class 1 pool) is available to the general public. Good AOW courses are out there if you do some research and interview your potential Instructor.

The 5 AOW dives are done in addition to the 8 week course and give the students the opportunity to use their skills under critical observation. If possible, one of the DMs film them and we can later sit down and give feedback on the video.

Even with training and education, until someone has 100 dives or so under her belt, its a misnomer to call them "Advanced." So what. We know that means they have an AOW card and have started their journey into the world of scuba diving.

 

[PatW]

If you have ever taught, you know that many students "learn" things to pass the test and then they endeavor to forget everything they learned.

I believe that most people do not understand that the important thing is the knowledge and skills one has and not the "credentials".

The rigor of a course is not really material if the students go ahead and forget everything anyway. By the same token, even a pretty cursory course can be of great benefit to someone who bothers to master the skills.