Triggers of Dive Accidents

[flots am]

I agree that people should be responsible for their own safety, but beginners need to have their hand held. Also, my point has nothing to do what WHY someone asks for your air pressure, but HOW they asked for it, and how they want to be told. If they confuse 3,000 psi with 300 psi, it's a communication problem that could result in a serious accident/death.

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter if the DM misunderstands anybody's tank pressure, as long as the diver knows what it is.

If I have 300PSI, I won't be around to tell the DM anything. I'll be back on the boat drying off in the sun and the DM can tell when I've reached my turn pressure because me and my buddy will be heading towards the exit.

The DM isn't breathing my air. I am.

flots.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter if the DM misunderstands anybody's tank pressure, as long as the diver knows what it is.

I think your overall points are valid but I would disagree with this one a bit, and for two different reasons. (And one was because of a point you already made.)

Let's say you tell the DM you have 300psi and he signals OK, and indiciates to continue the dive. You as a new diver (as you pointed out previously) may just go along with that because you figure the DM knows what he's doing. (Not an uncommon nor necessarily unreasonable assumption.)

So is this a case of the DM not undstanding what you told him (maybe he thought you signalled 1300psi) or simply being clueless as to what's going on?

The DM isn't breathing my air. I am.

Excellent point and generally one we've made before: No one can be more responsible for your safety in the water than you. To put it another way, if Nancy Reagan was a diver, she would counsel "Just say no."

Whether you're a raw newbie or a seasoned veteran or anywhere in between, when that little voice in your head is telling you it's time to end the dive, listen to it, regardless of what others may be saying.

Although most DMs are competent, caring, and professional, some are not. (The same can be said of buddies.) And when someone is telling you to do something (like continue a dive with low air) and you're not comfortable doing that, the appropriate response is "No."

- Ken

 

[Ayisha]

I agree that people should be responsible for their own safety, but beginners need to have their hand held.

If someone is certified, an instructor has determined that the diver is capable of planning and executing dives with a buddy within their experience and limits - no hand-holding required.

If hand-holding is required, it suggests that the diver is out of his or her comfort level and the diver should consider aborting or at least hire a DM or instructor for that purpose. It helps if the particular dives are worked up to gradually after achieving comfort in easier scenarios diving with a non-professional buddy.

If they confuse 3,000 psi with 300 psi, it's a communication problem that could result in a serious accident/death.

A diver should not still be at depth with 300 psi. The diver should have already informed the buddy first and the DM if necessary when they reached a pre-determined pressure and began their ascent by a predetermined pressure with the buddy - regardless of whether they could get the DM's attention.

Many of us on this board begin our ascents at around 1000 psi or more depending on the type of dive and ascent requirements.

As a new diver, I can tell you that during my first dives, I did EVERYTHING the DM tells me to. There is so much going on all at once, that you can't rely upon yourself for making all the right decisions.

If there is so much going on that a diver can't rely upon him or herself to make the right decisions, it again suggests that the diver is diving beyond their comfort level. All the basics should be just that - basic. If one is struggling with the basics, then it puts you at increased risk if things go wrong, since that would become really overwhelming.

I spent my first 38 dives in various training courses/shop dives with instructors and/or DM's nearby because I liked the comfort of having a leader around just in case. Yes, they were SCUBA Gods to me until I started noticing mistakes and hearing about and reading about accidents and incidents, and I realized they were human and I had better be responsible for myself. I did my 39th dive in dark, silty, low viz water with two buddies that I knew already - conditions we were used to, but a new dive site for us. We had a couple of minor issues, but we handled them well, and my confidence suddenly went up. From there, I just kept planning and executing dives with similar buddies that I trusted, quite a few of them instructor friends and building up to the depth of dives that I was actually trained to. The confidence and self-reliance will come as you do more dives, take more responsibility for them, handle issues, become more relaxed and proficient, and gain more situational awareness. I found that the rescue course really helped in showing me that I was capable in self-rescue as well as in rescuing others and encouraged me to be more self-reliant and aware of situations. I think all of those things could help many new divers.

 

[MADiver]

If I have 300PSI, I won't be around to tell the DM anything. I'll be back on the boat drying off in the sun and the [BM]DM can tell when I've reached my turn pressure because me and my buddy will be heading towards the exit.[/B]

A lot of us new divers have no idea where the "exit" is.

Most new divers (including me) don't feel comfortable leaving a DM in the middle of a guided dive. Especially if it's a guided dive in a place you've never been, it's very easy to get completely lost during the tour and have no idea how to get back to the boat. I have almost no sense of direction underwater - all I've done is the simple compass swim during OW training, and that's the extent of my navigation training.

 

[danvolker]

A lot of us new divers have no idea where the "exit" is.

Most new divers (including me) don't feel comfortable leaving a DM in the middle of a guided dive. Especially if it's a guided dive in a place you've never been, it's very easy to get completely lost during the tour and have no idea how to get back to the boat. I have almost no sense of direction underwater - all I've done is the simple compass swim during OW training, and that's the extent of my navigation training.

OK, here is something instructors better start teaching.....students need to be informed that low on air means coming up, and it does not matter where the boat is, or where the guided group is going...that is irrelevant. There is zero need to return underwater to any point of the dive, prior to surfacing...this is NOT cave diving. I blame "some" of this on the whole anchor diving laziness( on the part of the boats that do this) , where the students think the world will end if they don't get back to the anchor line. Any student or new diver under 500 should be on there way up...and if they are at 300 psi at 60 feet down, they should plan on a controlled ascent with NO Stop...a straight ascent to the surface.
Regards,
DanV

 

[MADiver]

OK, here is something instructors better start teaching.....students need to be informed that low on air means coming up, and it does not matter where the boat is, or where the guided group is going...that is irrelevant. There is zero need to return underwater to any point of the dive, prior to surfacing...this is NOT cave diving. I blame "some" of this on the whole anchor diving laziness( on the part of the boats that do this) , where the students think the world will end if they don't get back to the anchor line. Any student or new diver under 500 should be on there way up...and if they are at 300 psi at 60 feet down, they should plan on a controlled ascent with NO Stop...a straight ascent to the surface.
Regards,
DanV

Ok, so now I have a question. I can think of several occasions where I was on a guided tour, had no idea where the boat was, and knew that there was significant boat traffic on the surface. Diving molokini crater comes to mind -- there were 12-15 boats coming and going throughout the dive (you could hear the all boat traffic from the bottom). Is it smart to head to the surface in relatively high traffic areas like that? This is something that I've had to consider before as I usually suck down air faster than the more experienced divers in my group. My OW instructor beat it into our heads that we should never surface in high traffic areas if there were other options (presumably using an alternate air source in this situation).

 

[danvolker]

Ok, so now I have a question. I can think of several occasions where I was on a guided tour, had no idea where the boat was, and knew that there was significant boat traffic on the surface. Diving molokini crater comes to mind -- there were 12-15 boats coming and going throughout the dive (you could hear the all boat traffic from the bottom). Is it smart to head to the surface in relatively high traffic areas like that? This is something that I've had to consider before as I usually suck down air faster than the more experienced divers in my group. My OW instructor beat it into our heads that we should never surface in high traffic areas if there were other options (presumably using an alternate air source in this situation).

For a new diver, running OOA has a MUCH bigger liklihood of fatal consequences than surfacing and managing to get yourself run over. Even if this were a shipping channel ( which you should not be diving in as a student or new diver) , if you were critically low on air, you should be able to come up, inflate your vest on the surface so you can relax ( and not drown), and then pull out a really big Safety sausage and inflate it. You will be highly visable, and far more likely to survive than an OOA new diver that can't make it to the surface.
Regards,
DanV

p.s.

And, if you really are bad on air, consider towing a dive flag, even on the guided tours.
Also, switch to a Halcyon Backplate and wing, and you can store a one man life raft in the pocket between your back and the steel backplate---you can inflate the raft either with what is left in your tank, or orally. Then you climb in, and chill till you are picked up.

 

[MADiver]

For a new diver, running OOA has a MUCH bigger liklihood of fatal consequences than surfacing and managing to get yourself run over. Even if this were a shipping channel ( which you should not be diving in as a student or new diver) , if you were critically low on air, you should be able to come up, inflate your vest on the surface so you can relax ( and not drown), and then pull out a really big Safety sausage and inflate it. You will be highly visable, and far more likely to survive than an OOA new diver that can't make it to the surface.
Regards,
DanV

Thanks for your input. I had to google "safety sausage," so I guess you can add that to the list of things I wasn't taught or shown in my OW class.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Ok, so now I have a question. I can think of several occasions where I was on a guided tour, had no idea where the boat was, and knew that there was significant boat traffic on the surface. Diving molokini crater comes to mind -- there were 12-15 boats coming and going throughout the dive (you could hear the all boat traffic from the bottom). Is it smart to head to the surface in relatively high traffic areas like that? This is something that I've had to consider before as I usually suck down air faster than the more experienced divers in my group. My OW instructor beat it into our heads that we should never surface in high traffic areas if there were other options (presumably using an alternate air source in this situation).

Well, if you don't know where the boat is and you have a limited gas supply underwater...eventually you'll need to surface. You are weighing the certainty of running out of air and drowning against the possibility of getting run over by a boat. You just have to ascend in an intelligent manner. Shoot a DSMB from your safety stop if you have one and know how to use it. This communicates to people topside that a diver is below. Regardless of whether you shoot a DSMB, use your eyes and ears while ascending. Look and listen for nearby boats. Look directly above you to make sure that a boat isn't there (novices often forget to do this). My OW instructor taught us to surface with an arm extended above the head for protection. Once on the surface, look around quickly and be prepared to dive under in case a boat that hasn't seen you is about to run you over. Once you've confirmed there is no danger where you are, establish positive buoyancy, locate your boat, and formulate a plan with your buddy to get back to the boat.

It's normal for beginner divers to get tunnel vision on guided dives. They follow the DM/guide around like a little puppy dog and have no awareness of their surroundings. As you descend, take note of your boat's location and the general heading that the DM is taking. Take mental pictures of the underwater topography that you encounter. You can use a combination of unusual coral structures, depth contours, unique topographic features, etc., to orient yourself underwater. Much of underwater navigation is simply paying attention to what's around you.

 

[knowone]

Hows about a spg with a sticker on the back that says
300psi is port of 12 O'clock at 8 O'clock and 3000psi is starboard of 12 O'clock at 1 O'clock
and if you are at 9 O'clock it is time for lunch or one that talks

:zapr one like this
:goingdown: