Jacket BC or Wing BC

[BoltSnap]

Tobin,

I am not sure that I follow what you are saying. Are you recommending that no additional weight is attached to the BP/W? Is the DUI W&T system the only option for the additional required weight?

 

[BoltSnap]

... some say you're starting to cancel out the point of the bp/w by using it

Is there a reason for this opinion? Also, this would imply that one has to use a separate weight system/belt, correct?

 

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin,

I am not sure that I follow what you are saying. Are you recommending that no additional weight is attached to the BP/W? Is the DUI W&T system the only option for the additional required weight?

No, if you need a lot of ballast it's reasonable to put some of that ballast on the rig.

I provided a link to the DSS bolt on weight plates. These add 8 lbs to a medium or large DSS plate. Using Steel cylinders in lieu of Al80's is another way to put ~6 lbs more ballast on the rig. Neither of these approaches clutters the waist band.

What I don't like to see is 100% of the divers ballast attached to their in cold water.

Why do we wear ballast? To offset the buoyancy of our suits.

What's the minimum amount of ballast a diver needs? Ballast equal to the buoyancy of their suit when the cylinder is empty.

A BC should be able to:

1) Float the rig at the surface with a full cylinder independent of the diver. That allows the diver to ditch the rig, or but their gear on in the water.

2) Compensate for the maximum change in buoyancy of the divers exposure suit.

If one hangs 100% of the required ballast on their rig then their wing must be sized to float all of their ballast and all of their gas. That will require the use of a larger wing than would be necessary if they placed ballast equal to the weight of their gas in a weight belt.

Short answer, hanging all your ballast on your rig often forces the use of a larger wing.

Tobin

 

[BoltSnap]

Yes. Integrated weights come in the form of weight pockets that attach to the waist belt.

Are these integrated ditchable weight pockets readily available from more than one supplier or the ones you list are all there is?

Most divers that have a crotch strap wear the weight belt under the BC's belt system. This helps insure that should the belt buckle fail or is inadvertently opened, is stays on you. Ditching it is still possible but requires a tad more effort.

I am sure that I am comfortable with a system that implies there would be difficulty in ditching the bulk of weights in an emergency. This goes against all current safety recommendations. This isn't that beginner to intermediate divers should be dealing with at all.

 

[fjpatrum]

Are these integrated ditchable weight pockets readily available from more than one supplier or the ones you list are all there is?




I am sure that I am comfortable with a system that implies there would be difficulty in ditching the bulk of weights in an emergency. This goes against all current safety recommendations. This isn't that beginner to intermediate divers should be dealing with at all.

Some divers choose to put their weight belts on under the crotch strap. That doesn't mean any divers have to do so. You know that. At this point you're arguing just for the sake of arguing, which is a deliberate waste of people's time, and rude.

 

[BoltSnap]

No, if you need a lot of ballast it's reasonable to put some of that ballast on the rig.

I provided a link to the DSS bolt on weight plates. These add 8 lbs to a medium or large DSS plate. Using Steel cylinders in lieu of Al80's is another way to put ~6 lbs more ballast on the rig. Neither of these approaches clutters the waist band.

What I don't like to see is 100% of the divers ballast attached to their in cold water.

Why do we wear ballast? To offset the buoyancy of our suits.

What's the minimum amount of ballast a diver needs? Ballast equal to the buoyancy of their suit when the cylinder is empty.

A BC should be able to:

1) Float the rig at the surface with a full cylinder independent of the diver. That allows the diver to ditch the rig, or but their gear on in the water.

2) Compensate for the maximum change in buoyancy of the divers exposure suit.

If one hangs 100% of the required ballast on their rig then their wing must be sized to float all of their ballast and all of their gas. That will require the use of a larger wing than would be necessary if they placed ballast equal to the weight of their gas in a weight belt.

Short answer, hanging all your ballast on your rig often forces the use of a larger wing.

Tobin

Tobin,

Sorry, but you are confusing me. What difference does it make if the weight is integrated/attached to the BP/W or is on a discreet belt if, at the end, it is still attached to the diver? The wing would still have to support all of the weight worn by the diver regardless if it is integrated/attached to the BP/W or not.

It would make more sense to me that the bulk of the weight on the diver is worn on the BP/W in a way that would make it easier and convenient to ditch it should the need ever arise. Putting any lead behind the diver where he can't reach it doesn't sound terribly safe.

 

[merxlin]

Are these integrated ditchable weight pockets readily available from more than one supplier or the ones you list are all there is?

There are these: XS Scuba
These: Trident
These:Dive Rite
And several others if you do a web search.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin,

Sorry, but you are confusing me. What difference does it make if the weight is integrated/attached to the BP/W or is on a discreet belt if, at the end, it is still attached to the diver? The wing would still have to support all of the weight worn by the diver regardless if it is integrated/attached to the BP/W or not.

No. If the gear is ditched the wing need only support what is actually attached to the *RIG*

If your gear is floating over there supported by the wing, and you are floating over here in your 24+ lbs buoyant wetsuit while wearing a 8 lbs weight belt, the wing is *NOT* supporting the weight belt.

OTOH is you used no weight belt and instead added 8 lbs to your rig via pockets, P weights, blocks on the Cambands etc. etc. etc. then your wing would need to float all your ballast and all of your gas if you ditched the gear.

It would make more sense to me that the bulk of the weight on the diver is worn on the BP/W in a way that would make it easier and convenient to ditch it should the need ever arise. Putting any lead behind the diver where he can't reach it doesn't sound terribly safe.

A properly weighted diver views ditchable ballast from a different perspective.

Tobin

 

[BoltSnap]

Some divers choose to put their weight belts on under the crotch strap. That doesn't mean any divers have to do so. You know that. At this point you're arguing just for the sake of arguing, which is a deliberate waste of people's time, and rude.

No, I don't know that and I won't make any assumptions about it. I am asking these questions from folks who seem to have a lot more experience than I do with this particular type of equipment. This doesn't mean that I would accept all they say at face value or not to ask questions when I don't understand what they are saying or when what they say conflicts with what I know.

I am not arguing AT ALL, I am doing my best to understand the other persons point of view to the best that I can and their patience and generosity in taking the time to answer these questions is much appreciated. If I seem to be "questioning" anyone's reply, that only means that I don't understand what they said and that I am trying to see their point of view. If I offended anyone who has been generous with their patience and advice, I humbly apologize.


BTW, I'll bet that there are at least 50 other folks who are lurking that have the same questions as I do. I am sure that now they will continue to lurk after seeing your unfriendly attitude.

 

[CT Sean]

Is there a reason for this opinion? Also, this would imply that one has to use a separate weight system/belt, correct?

One of the reasons is that taking a BP and loading it up with integrated weight pockets, possibly along with all kinds of padding takes away from it's simplicity and basically turns it into a full featured, "all the bells and whistles" back-inflate BC. If that's what you are looking for, just buy a Zeagle Ranger (just as an example).

It does mean your ditchable weight needs to be on a weight belt (or the DUI weight harness) instead.

I personally don't want integrated weights on my bp/w because I like having an "open" chest/tummy area and i don't want my rig to weigh 50ish lbs all by itself. For the record, I don't care what kind of BC someone has or how it's configured, just as long as they are safe and having fun. From the other BP vs jacket thread, I know you are a jacket guy and I'm glad you enjoy it.