How Rigorous Should Training Be?

[rjack321]

For instructors supposedly teaching this stuff, I'd expect 25 to 50 dives per year above the level you're instructing. For a basic cave instructor that is not too difficult to achieve at all. For a full cave or DVP cave or hypoxic trimix instructor it gets increasingly difficult. But duh you are teaching increasingly risky endeavors and good students expect you to be "on your game". If an instuctor isn't diving this much (outside of class) I think they shouldn't be teaching - or have the wisdom to teach at a lower level they are current with. We have too many rusty instructors anyway.

 

[LiteHedded]

when you teach as much as the big names do, it's hard to dive anything but the training caves

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

when you teach as much as the big names do, it's hard to dive anything but the training caves

... kinda sucks the fun out of it, don't you think?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

... kinda sucks the fun out of it, don't you think?

Not necessarily. It might for you, but I could see people getting a lot out of simply training others to a higher level.

 

[LiteHedded]

... kinda sucks the fun out of it, don't you think?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Yea. A lot of them get burned out on it

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

...and if thats the only dives they are doing, their superior(hopefully) diving skills might get less sharp...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not necessarily. It might for you, but I could see people getting a lot out of simply training others to a higher level.

True ... but the comment was about "big name" instructors.

Nobody ever got to be a "big name" by simply training others to a higher level. They got there because they were motivated to do big dives. I think that's a personality thing ... and your personality and motives for diving don't change when you become an instructor. Your circumstances may, but it won't change what "floats your boat" about diving.

Yes, I know several instructors who are perfectly content to do nothing underwater but teach. I wouldn't consider any of them "big names" ... or even particularly competent in some cases ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rich Courtney]

From an instructional point of view, I'm going to push somebody who's got great skills harder than someone who has average skills.....
There is a minimum standard that you must achieve in order to pass, as a few on here and other boards have found to their detriment! This is what I tell students, there are certain skills that we have to get done by standards, if you keep it high and tight that's all you'll have to do, but if you leave the door open, that's when I have my fun...... Unfortunately, there's no one who's kept it high and tight enough for my satisfaction yet......
One of the problems I see these days, is that some of the newer cave instructors don't have their confidence and control nailed yet and they tend to take care of problems immediately, taking what I call the nanny approach instead of letting the student(s) try and work through it themselves before stepping in. Our job is to take people beyond their comfort level but NOT to get them into a freak out state and it's a fine line to walk sometimes! However it's also the funnest part of teaching when you start "snowballing" people, but there have been times in the cave when I'll back off 'cause I feel one more thing would be the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.
Oh yeah and when I say you did a really good job and they're won't be any drills on this dive, I'm lying, just means I'm trying to catch you unawares.....
I also happen to feel if you teach more than you fun dive, you shouldn't be teaching, but heck that's just my opinion.....

Safe diving,

Rich

 

[rjack321]

True ... but the comment was about "big name" instructors.

Nobody ever got to be a "big name" by simply training others to a higher level. They got there because they were motivated to do big dives. I think that's a personality thing ... and your personality and motives for diving don't change when you become an instructor. Your circumstances may, but it won't change what "floats your boat" about diving.

Yes, I know several instructors who are perfectly content to do nothing underwater but teach. I wouldn't consider any of them "big names" ... or even particularly competent in some cases ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

The ones who scare me are the big names who <did> big dives and such years ago. but now they are older and haven't done much beyond an intro level teaching dive in a year+. Yet they are still "big names" in their own minds and others despite being rusty on big dives. So their capacity to teach full cave DPV stage etc is maybe a bit less than stellar. I don't think anyone will get hurt in class. But students might not get pushed very hard, maybe come out a bit cocky, etc.

I'm willing to conceed that maybe this isn't the issue I suspect it is. Its just a gut feeling more than anything.

 

[Rich Courtney]

The ones who scare me are the big names who <did> big dives and such years ago. but now they are older and haven't done much beyond an intro level teaching dive in a year+. Yet they are still "big names" in their own minds and others despite being rusty on big dives. So their capacity to teach full cave DPV stage etc is maybe a bit less than stellar. I don't think anyone will get hurt in class. But students might not get pushed very hard, maybe come out a bit cocky, etc.

EXACTLY! Great post, John.... I see skills deteriorating like you wouldn't believe with some of these "legends".....

Safe diving,

Rich