Training fatality claims Utah woman in Florida

[DandyDon]

I wonder how close the Defib proponents would require they be on all park trails.

 

[Splitlip]

Appears to not have been a direct factor in this incident (if it was indeed an aneurism), but sure makes one wonder about the election to push the envelope in the first 2 days of actual open water exposure. Having completed the training of hundreds of newbs in typically 15-25' of temperate freshwater, I can't imagine ever taking fledgling divers, even under the most ideal of conditions, to 40' (let alone 60'), and asking them to perform ESA or mask removal/replacement skills. Dealing with fullblown panic in the former, is one thing...

Just generalizing, and not calling out any individual instructor or operator.

I can't imagine how many thousands of divers have been certified on Palm Beach 60 ft dives without incident. Most students do their first two open water dives in 12 to 30 ft. Their third and fourth dives are 60 footers.

 

[Notso_Ken]

Sorry, but I can't imagine NOT taking the students to 60' on day 2 of checkout dives. The instructors I work with all do so. Yes, day 1 is typically no more than 25', but day 2 they are ready to do more. If all they have done is 25' in training, how can you turn them loose to go deeper on their own as a certified diver?


Ken

Appears to not have been a direct factor in this incident (if it was indeed an aneurism), but sure makes one wonder about the election to push the envelope in the first 2 days of actual open water exposure. Having completed the training of hundreds of newbs in typically 15-25' of temperate freshwater, I can't imagine ever taking fledgling divers, even under the most ideal of conditions, to 40' (let alone 60'), and asking them to perform ESA or mask removal/replacement skills. Dealing with fullblown panic in the former, is one thing...

Just generalizing, and not calling out any individual instructor or operator.

 

[Splitlip]

We have a little dive site here called the Blue Heron Bridge Marine Park. It is just inside the Lake Worth (Palm Beach) inlet and sheltered from all but the worst weather conditions. Depths are from 12 to 22 ft. Instructors will take their students there for the first 2 open water dives, then 3 and 4 (or 5) are live boat dives.

I found it disturbing when I was at the bridge one weekend. There was an out of town instructor on site with his class. The seas were blown out and their boat canceled. The class did open water dives 3 and 4 in 12 ft of water. These dives amounted to descending and playing on the bottom for about 20 minutes then surfacing and chatting for a few minutes. The instructor essentially told the class that they were as prepared as any diver who has done the 60 footers. They then descended again.
I felt bad for the instructor as he and class had traveled here and were staing in a motel for the weekend. I felt worse for the students because in my mind I disagree with the instructor' remark.

 

[Splitlip]

Sorry, but I can't imagine NOT taking the students to 60' on day 2 of checkout dives. The instructors I work with all do so. Yes, day 1 is typically no more than 25', but day 2 they are ready to do more. If all they have done is 25' in training, how can you turn them loose to go deeper on their own as a certified diver?


Ken

Especially for the vacation divers who show up here. Unless they really discuss things with the dive op's, they will more than likely be dropped in 85 ft of water for the first dive. If they work a little they may find an op that does "easy dives" that parents enjoy for their young kids. Even then, the dives will still be 45 ft to 65 ft. There are couple of 25 to 30 ft sites that Scuba Club uses for their first 2 open water dives, but no op is going to take paying customers there.

 

[Chuckitall]

So you would prefer to certify them in 25' of water and for there first non instructed dive jump on a boat that usually dives 60 to 80 ft in Jupiter/WPB. I couldn't sleep at night knowing I certified divers that I knew weren't ready to dive. By dives 3 & 4 you need to get them ready for real world dives. I've worked on dive boats where divers are shocked that the normal dives are 60 ft or deeper. Come on guys train them.

 

[Garth]

Just so everyone is aware of what an AED is because a few of the comments lead me to believe that some may not know...

An AED is an Automated defibrillator that sends an electrical charge through the heart to "shock" it back into a normal rhythm... meaning that if the heart has no electrical activity the AED will not advise a shock. Also if the electrical activity of the heart is normal but the heart is not pumping enough to sustain a pulse it will also not advise a shock. Examples of rhythms needing defibrillation would be ventricular fibrillatrion, and supraventricular tachycardia. I am not exactly familiar with the AED's as my job we use manual defibrillation at varying Joules.

Hope this help. Important to realize that the boat: 1) had a AED 2) used an AED and 3) was unable to utilize the AED because of what was going on cardiac wise.

I'm sure the machine would note if the leads were mal-placed so I wont comment on that.

 

[Splitlip]

I've had the training. Thanks.

 

[Bogie]

I'm not sure what you learn at 60 feet that you can't learn at 30-40 feet. Actually diving at 60 feet is easier because of buoyancy stability. In Monterey people get their OW cert in the 20 40 range. Unless you dive from a boat most dives are 30-50 feet. You can dive the trench from shore at Monastery Beach and dive 100's of feet if you want. The deeper you go the darker and colder it gets. Visibility is an issue and the shallow dive is the safer dive if there is a problem and new divers have problems.

With all the extra equipment (full 7mm, hood, gloves, more weight) and the conditions (cold, poor visibility, surge, current,waves, kelp) the multitasking that a new diver faces in Monterey at 30-40 dive is plenty of challenge.

It seems the training and support this new diver received was excellent and it looks like a unpredictable heath related occurrence.

My condolences to the boat crew, instructor, family and friends.

 

[flots am]

So you would prefer to certify them in 25' of water and for there first non instructed dive jump on a boat that usually dives 60 to 80 ft in Jupiter/WPB. I couldn't sleep at night knowing I certified divers that I knew weren't ready to dive. By dives 3 & 4 you need to get them ready for real world dives. I've worked on dive boats where divers are shocked that the normal dives are 60 ft or deeper. Come on guys train them.

That works both ways. It would be nice if dive ops would look at a logbook that shows 5 dives with a max depth of 25' and say "Sorry, this really isn't the right dive for you, right now."

flots.