What to expect on a checkout dive?

[Jim Lapenta]

I never said I would not do the skills. I'd do them horizontal and hovering. And if the pulled the same stunt they did with Bob by making him do them "properly" on my knees I would seriously look at finding another op in the area to dive with. And I'd still complain to the resort owner about his people reinforcing poor practices and that is the reason I'm not going to make use of his facilities and I will encourage others to do the same.

The " we can't do anything about the knees" part is bull crap and why it still goes on. If divers started refusing to do it, it would change.

 

[Bombay High]

We shared a barge with a recreational dive team whilst on a technical scout. We carried banked 18/40 trimix with us.
One evening we wanted to do a fun dive shallow, and asked the rec divers if we could have their tanks and use their compressor. They asked us for certification. Not one of 12 commercial divers on the barge had a certification card.

So we opened some beers instead.

Rules can be irritating ... but they are rules

 

[explorer08]

Well, the reply was directed at explorer08 who think checkouts in the first place is wrong..

You could read a detailed explanation why I consider checking basic skills a wrong headed policy, in my post which has been deleted by RonFrank, by unknown reason. And I am quite sure you read it, because it has been available for several days before deletion. I don't repeat it again!

 

[explorer08]

We shared a barge with a recreational dive team whilst on a technical scout. We carried banked 18/40 trimix with us.
One evening we wanted to do a fun dive shallow, and asked the rec divers if we could have their tanks and use their compressor. They asked us for certification. Not one of 12 commercial divers on the barge had a certification card.

So we opened some beers instead.

Rules can be irritating ... but they are rules

Please don't get me for wrong. I don't know about the complete situation and you mentioned technical diving as well, which might change everything. But simply handing rec scuba gear to someone, because he is a commercial diver can be very tricky. I had some experiences with commercial divers myself. They know much more about diving than most rec divers and generally they are fine in the water, but if it is their first time on rec equipment, they usually need one or two dives to get used to that unusual equipment, particullarly to make proper use of their BC's, because they are not used to that. So usually it's a good idea for them to do their first try on rec gear in a controlled environment and maybe under some supervison.

 

[SeaCobra]

Personally I would just do the skills as requested and not try to be some egotistical hard ass. By showing respect for the operators and staff I would hope I would be shown some respect myself. As the dive trip develops I can showcase my skills and open a meaningful dialogue to share ways we can all improve the methods in the scuba industry.

 

[explorer08]

Personally I would just do the skills as requested and not try to be some egotistical hard ass. By showing respect for the operators and staff I would hope I would be shown some respect myself. As the dive trip develops I can showcase my skills and open a meaningful dialogue to share ways we can all improve the methods in the scuba industry.

An interesting point of view, particularly because respect is my point too. Just that I see it completely reverse.

Why should the customer be the first one to show respect in a business relationship?
If someone wants me to spend my money at his business, first of all I expect that he shows respect to me. And of course, if he shows respect to me, I do the same in reverse. But first of all, “The customer is king!”
And in my opinion, as I have explained before in that deleted post, having customers, who are certified divers, demonstrating basic skills to some staff member, by no other reason than that the dive operator doesn’t know them, doesn’t mean to respect them. It’s exactly the reverse – it’s disrespect. And it’s not only disrespect to the customer, it’s disrespect to their certifiying instructor as well. It means questioning his ability to evaluate if a diver is ripe for his level, without ever having been in any contact with him.

Even Tigerman does agree that it is possible to evaluate a diver’s capabilities, without having him demonstrating basic skills. Therefore I don’t have a problem with conducting an easy dive in a minor sensible environment with new customers and giving them a chance to check their equipment, while carefully watching them doing that. If any staff member is not able to evaluate a customer that way, than maybe the customer is not the problem but the staff member.
Only if during that dive any skill related problem does occur, than I see an obligation to intervene. What to do exactly depends on the kind of problem and there is a wide range of options. It may start with a small hint directly during the dive and it may end with rejecting to dive anymore with that customer.

 

[farsidefan1]

With most of the operators I have been with the 'Checkout dive" is not quite so formalized. At Cocoview they actually have new guests do the mask clearing and such but then the dive continues on to explore the walls and the Price Albert. Just an introduction to the front yard so guests know what is right there for them if they want to dive without the boat. Therefore it is not, in my mind at least, a wasted dive. In Coz we did an easy dive and were just observed by the DM then the rest of the week we were put in boats with similarly experience divers. In Palau with the Aggressor we did the Helmet Wreck, a shallow in harbor dive. Same thing. They observed us dive with no formal skill check. On that occasion all were very experienced divers with one exception. He ended up having a DM as his dive buddy all week. I don't know if he paid extra for that or not as my German is pretty much limited to "don't shoot (my 8th grade instructor had been in world war II - on the side of the Germans and "Ein glas conyac bitte (ok, spelling and everything else might be a little off these 47 yrs later). Same thing off the Spoilsport in Australia. Observed but no formal demonstration. In Fiji, Bahamas, Belize, no formal checkout at all. I still remember the near panic of my first dive after certification. I went on a trip to Belize with the dive shop (so basically a bunch of strangers). As I did my backroll into the water and floundered a bit on the surface trying to verify everything was ok then upon return to the boat fighting fairly rough water conditions to reboard. Man, I was exhausted and excited at the same time. I still remember the stress. I think I could have passed a checkout dive but man, I felt sufficiently task loaded without the checkout at the time. Oh yes, and although the dive masters had set up my kit they had not attached the strap to the tank - yup, I failed to check it (FAIL on my part - maybe that was my check so I'm out there floating in medium big waves with my tank beside me - no not a sidemount rig . That was my first experience with a trust me dive. Also pretty much my last one.

 

[Juardis]

With most of the operators I have been with the 'Checkout dive" is not quite so formalized. At Cocoview they actually have new guests do the mask clearing and such but then the dive continues on to explore the walls and the Price Albert. Just an introduction to the front yard so guests know what is right there for them if they want to dive without the boat. Therefore it is not, in my mind at least, a wasted dive. In Coz we did an easy dive and were just observed by the DM then the rest of the week we were put in boats with similarly experience divers. In Palau with the Aggressor we did the Helmet Wreck, a shallow in harbor dive. Same thing. They observed us dive with no formal skill check. On that occasion all were very experienced divers with one exception. He ended up having a DM as his dive buddy all week. I don't know if he paid extra for that or not as my German is pretty much limited to "don't shoot (my 8th grade instructor had been in world war II - on the side of the Germans and "Ein glas conyac bitte (ok, spelling and everything else might be a little off these 47 yrs later). Same thing off the Spoilsport in Australia. Observed but no formal demonstration. In Fiji, Bahamas, Belize, no formal checkout at all. I still remember the near panic of my first dive after certification. I went on a trip to Belize with the dive shop (so basically a bunch of strangers). As I did my backroll into the water and floundered a bit on the surface trying to verify everything was ok then upon return to the boat fighting fairly rough water conditions to reboard. Man, I was exhausted and excited at the same time. I still remember the stress. I think I could have passed a checkout dive but man, I felt sufficiently task loaded without the checkout at the time. Oh yes, and although the dive masters had set up my kit they had not attached the strap to the tank - yup, I failed to check it (FAIL on my part - maybe that was my check so I'm out there floating in medium big waves with my tank beside me - no not a sidemount rig . That was my first experience with a trust me dive. Also pretty much my last one.

Thanks farsidefan for sharing your experiences. And everyone else too. I wear contacts - extended wear. If they come in contact with lake/seawater, they're ruined and I have to toss them. So if I know my contacts are going to come in contact with water, then I'd wear daily wears which I don't like at all. So if I have to clear my mask, then I need to pack daily wears since they might come in contact with seawater. I don't have a problem showing I can clear my mask, or take it off entirely and put it back on, or whatever, it's just I don't know what to expect. Based on the responses so far, it appears there is no standard to expect.

FWIW, I tend to side with explorer. I mean, I've got my c card which means I've already demonstrated mask clearing, regulator clearing/retrieval, air sharing, so on and so forth. And I did it well enough to get certified. But that doesn't make me a good diver. What I would have expected to be able to demonstrate was proper weighting, good buoyancy skills, and be able to maneuver sufficiently well to stay off the reefs and other people. I think that's entirely understandable for a dive op to want to know. When I practice, that's what I'm practicing. I'm not practicing regulator retrieval.

Anyway, please continue. I find this thread very informational.

 

[Tigerman]

I never said I would not do the skills. I'd do them horizontal and hovering. And if the pulled the same stunt they did with Bob by making him do them "properly" on my knees I would seriously look at finding another op in the area to dive with. And I'd still complain to the resort owner about his people reinforcing poor practices and that is the reason I'm not going to make use of his facilities and I will encourage others to do the same.

The " we can't do anything about the knees" part is bull crap and why it still goes on. If divers started refusing to do it, it would change.

Well, I don't think it is bull**** as I said, there will always be others that go there and accept - or even prefer - to do their skills on their knees and that problem is caused by lowered standards from training agencies. I guess some people think they cant hold people to higher standards than their certification agency..

 

[TSandM]

The problem is that people who show up at resorts aren't necessarily people who have just finished their OW certs -- or even people who have recently dived at all. Just because, five years ago, you showed you could clear a mask, doesn't mean you aren't going to panic if it flood this year. I did a dive once with a friend who was about 40 dives past his cert -- but he had been certified in the tropics, and had never had a mask flood in Puget ice water. When it happened, he lost rational thought, and his behavior was totally irrational. It scared him, and scared the two of us who were buddied with him.

I don't blame dive operators for asking people to demonstrate those skills. In fact, I'm kind of surprised that, nowhere I have gone, has anyone asked me to do so.