Complaint about recent diving experience.

[Albin123]

Hi,

I am new to this forum and might've posted this in the wrong category, if that is the case, I apologize and humbly ask you to move it to the appropiate one. English also isn't my first language so I apologize for any typos etc.

Anyway, the reason I registered on this forum was to share an experience with fellow divers so that you can give your input on the diving experience and possibly tell me if I am way out of my depth (no pun intended) and who is wrong: Me or the or diving centre.

Background
I have an advanced diving certificate and my partner whom is very scared of deep water has basically never ever been snorkeling. Meaning she has barely been under water and has never seen a BCD/octopus etc.

Anyway I convinced her to a fun dive with a diving centre a couple of weeks ago in Thailand, we had positive expectations based on our initial interactions with the team. They assured that my partner without any diving experience would have the opportunity to practice essential diving skills on the beach/in the pool, such as breathing, swimming, and other necessary techniques to qualify for a real dive. Regrettably, the actual experience significantly deviated from our expectations.

At the day of the dive the weather was pretty chaotic. We called them at the morning informing them about the weather conditions, including large waves and heavy rain. I was pretty nervous for my partners sake, a fun dive in my world should be fun and not an episode of Fear factor.
Anyway, despite our hesitation, they gave us their reassurance that my partner could practice all the necessary aspects as promised at the beach, and that the dive would occur at a calm place in the ocean, I quote: "We do this everyday - It's fine".

However, our experience took an alarming turn when we were taken into the open sea (instead of the beach as promised) amidst the challenging weather conditions. Even I, (a semi-experienced diver) was nervous to jump into this turbulent water (the waves were several metres high and the rain was at its peak) without any rehearseal (haven't been diving for like 5 years), I can't even imagine how my partner felt. My partner, was immediately instructed to jump in and swim down to a depth of 10 meters, without adequate surface instruction or the opportunity to acclimate to the equipment. She possesses minimal familiarity with underwater breathing techniques and orientation or mask-clearing, and has never worn fins or a BCD before. She barely knew how to descend and she had no idea what the different buttons on the BCD do. She didn't know how to breathe in & out the regulator.

However she was instructed to jump into the chaotic water and immediately descend to the the ocean floor (10m down) and there my partner was instructed to fill her mask with water and empty it. encountered difficulties since she has no idea how to do it, leading to her mask filling up with water, striking her with panic and forcing us to resurface.This approach, akin to throwing someone out of a plane without any practical training on how to deploy a parachute, left her deeply distressed. The lack of proper guidance and training at the beach/surface and the subsequent trauma she experienced have left a lasting negative impact. She will probably never dive again because of this experience.

Our experience was highly unusual and potentially unsafe. I would like to think that neglecting safety measures to expedite the dive for financial gain is both shameful and unethical, and it is disheartening to think that someones well being is jeopardized for monetary reasons.

In light of the distressing events, we requested a refund for her dive (not my dive, only hers, even though I was forced to ascend because of this well). Additionally, we expected a apology for the disregard of her safety and the subsequent emotional trauma experienced by my partner. We understand the importance of maintaining a positive reputation in the diving community, and we hoped this incident could have been amicably resolved. However the diving centre totally ignored us without giving us any reply back. I really don't care about the money, I honestly just got really sad for my partner, she feels like she sucks at diving and that it isn't for her because of this incident. And it actually might not be for her, but I don't feel like a dive like this can decide that.

To the questions:

1. Am I wrong for asking for an apology and the money for her dive back?
2. Should I file a complaint or something to PADI?
3. What would you do in my situation?

Thank you for reading and also, I won't mention the name of the diving centre just yet unless I get green light from other divers that they were wrong in the matter.

Thank you, and once again, apologies if this is in the wrong category.

 

[ShallowSeasGallery]

Since we weren't there and can only go off your description I can only garner a few things.

1. Anyone can call a dive for any reason, at any time. * with the caveat if you call it, you pay for it, they don't get their boat fuel back just because you're too nervous to do something people do every day. If the weather didn't look good for you, you should have called while on the phone with them then and there, that was also you best chance at a refund.
2. 10m is within standards for a Discover Scuba Dive (DSD, thats the product you should have been doing)
3. Since it sounds like you were both panicked, I doubt your "several meter high waves" figure, most captains start calling quits at 1m.
4. Where I can find fault with the dive center is that it sounds like the classroom/pool part of the DSD was skipped, or they misunderstood you AND partner as certified divers looking to do a refresher after 5 years which is exactly what the scenario looks like.

 

[Albin123]

Since we weren't there and can only go off your description I can only garner a few things.

1. Anyone can call a dive for any reason, at any time. * with the caveat if you call it, you pay for it, they don't get their boat fuel back just because you're too nervous to do something people do every day. If the weather didn't look good for you, you should have called while on the phone with them then and there, that was also you best chance at a refund.
2. 10m is within standards for a Discover Scuba Dive (DSD, thats the product you should have been doing)
3. Since it sounds like you were both panicked, I doubt your "several meter high waves" figure, most captains start calling quits at 1m.
4. Where I can find fault with the dive center is that it sounds like the classroom/pool part of the DSD was skipped, or they misunderstood you AND partner as certified divers looking to do a refresher after 5 years which is exactly what the scenario looks like.

Hi,

Thank you dearly for your answer. This is why I posted in a forum.

I feel like I should answer your questions though since you are speculating on some points. Understandable though since you weren't there.

1. You are probably right here, a booking is a booking! It's just that in my line of work (parachuting) - we don't throw out people in the air without proper guidance before, it might be different here, that's why I am asking in a forum. Being nervous is not a reason to cancel a dive in itself, but since our hotel even warned people from snorkeling it's not weird that we decided to call and express our concerns, don't you agree? We will see what other people will answer here.
2. I am well aware that 10m is a DSD, it's not about the depth itself but about the lack of training.
3. I was not aware about the 1m rule. If that's the case I am probably wrong here. The boat was "swinging" up and down several meters, and once in the water you felt like you were being thrown around several meters. I am not sure how to describe it further than this. It was really rough for a first-timer and nothing I have experienced myself. I haven't done thousands of dives but I've done around 100.
4. This part I am 100% sure that they didn't misunderstand. They knew for sure that this was her first dive.

From your answer I can conclude that we shouldn't be able to cancel because of the storm but they should've given her proper training as promised before throwing her out in the open sea.

Just to be clear, I am not in any way blaming the diving centre for not canceling our dive due to the storm. That part is completely understandable. It's once again about the lack of proper guidance and training before diving in the storm, or diving at all.

Thank you again for answering. Appreciate it.

 

[Rilelen]

That does not sound like an appropriate DSD experience; I'm not familiar with PADI standards but skipping classroom/confined water and moving straight to open water seems sus. You *can* count some seemingly open water environments (e.g., a beach, some of the shallow Florida springs) as "confined water", but only if it offers a pool-like environment, which this (regardless of whether waves were 1m or 3m) does not sound like it would qualify.

 

[Alex Ouroboros]

Your description of 10m deep from a boat with zero instruction (I mean real instructions not “see you at the bottom”) lack of confined water skills prior to heading out, Reg recovery, mask clearing, basic weight check and quick theory course with a medical questionnaire (skills can be in a pool or sheltered beach etc) are the minimum requirement for Discover scuba in a controlled open water environment, I would definitely be getting in touch with PADI about this, I’ve taken students for discover scuba and I am actually quite horrified what the centre / instructor put you both through. I really hope that at some point in the future your other half has another crack at it with people offering the correct professional service you should have received.

 

[Mo.Diver]

I guess the question is, did you sign the release form?

 

[stiebs]

There's a bit going on here. First off, be very careful about how you present facts, especially about making exaggerations. I guarantee you that the waves you experienced were not "several meters high". So straight away your recollection loses a lot of credibility.

I'm not familiar with all agency standards, but assuming that we are talking about a PADI dive center, the standard for DSD requires a "confined water" component followed by an optional open water dive.

Prior to any diving, there is a briefing requirement which goes through all the skills, and also a knowledge review for each participant to complete.

The confined water component has a maximum depth of 6m. Once that is complete, and it progresses to the open water dive, maximum depth is 10m. If a suitable confined water location is not available, it can be conducted in deeper water, provided there is something to limit depth.

 

[Albin123]

There's a bit going on here. First off, be very careful about how you present facts, especially about making exaggerations. I guarantee you that the waves you experienced were not "several meters high". So straight away your recollection loses a lot of credibility.

I'm not familiar with all agency standards, but assuming that we are talking about a PADI dive center, the standard for DSD requires a "confined water" component followed by an optional open water dive.

Prior to any diving, there is a briefing requirement which goes through all the skills, and also a knowledge review for each participant to complete.

The confined water component has a maximum depth of 6m. Once that is complete, and it progresses to the open water dive, maximum depth is 10m. If a suitable confined water location is not available, it can be conducted in deeper water, provided there is something to limit depth.

I understand what you mean. As I said in a earlier comment the waves were probably not several meters high but the boat was literally "bouncing" up and down several meters and you felt like you were being thrown around. People could barely get up the ladder when they resurfaced. I don't know how else to explain it. Now I could be wrong, I am not so used to the ocean and waves and speaking in "several meters" was just a random measurement for me, but apparently people red that as important details.

The main concern of me was basically throwing out someone without any training into water in the middle of the ocean.

 

[Kharon]

After a near death experience in very high chop, one of my absolute rules is to decide if I can make a long surface swim on snorkel in the surface conditions. From your description I would not have splashed. Moreover, you should have aborted the entire venture having been switched from beach entry to the conditions you encountered. Especially with someone who has barely even snorkeled. WHat the eff were you thinking?

 

[MidOH]

While this was terrible for you, the cowboy style boats are heaven for us. But yeah, that dive op owes you. You wanted a discover dive, not some expert dive.

I hate boats that cancel due to rough waves, or rain on a still ocean. I had one boat pulling the ladder completely out due to chop. Had to time it, when to grab the ladder. When the boat dips. Then let the wave pull me into the air on the ladder, and go up a rung when the boat dips again. Fat British guy freaked out.

I'll trade current for rough seas every time. Current sucks, for anything but a drift dive.