Wilmington Incident - 16 Oct

[JG109]

Unless I missed it, could someone with actual knowledge of these ledges describe them? I have dove the limestone? ledges (for the bbq not teeth) off Moorehead City (approx. 125' depth) several times. Low ledges, sand bottom, strong current. Are they similar? Sand bottom?

Also, and maybe for another thread, in NJ, a pony bottle (or doubles) is pretty much mandatory on the dive boats. Does the clear/warm water down south give some people a false sense of security? We got chuckled at in Key Largo when diving ponies, even on the Spiegel Grove and Duane.

 

[Colliam7]

Also, and maybe for another thread, in NJ, a pony bottle (or doubles) is pretty much mandatory on the dive boats. Does the clear/warm water down south give some people a false sense of security?

I don't know if that is the case - it may be that there is a level of comfort though because of the usual patterns of temperature and viz. But, there isn't a general policy among NC coastal charters, as far as I have ever seen, of encouraging / requiring a redundant air supply on recreational dives, nor can I say that there is a consistent percentage of divers who carry a pony on deeper (>110') recreational dives. Some do (I do, if I am diving single tank), many don't. And, doubles diving is relatively uncommon on most recreational charters - you can do it, some captains don't like it but won't object, some captains want to be sure you are using one set for both dives (space considerations) with no extended bottom times or deco plans, etc.

We got chuckled at in Key Largo when diving ponies, even on the Spiegel Grove and Duane.

I do not dive the Grove or the Duane without a redundant supply, and have never had anyone comment on my pony (or doubles) on either of those dives. But, I have also been chuckled at in Key Largo when I took a pony on a shallow reef dive one time. My buddy and I were practicing (air sharing, gas switches, etc.) planning to dive the Grove the next day. I had a new pony and wanted to check out the buoyancy characteristics before jumping off on the Grove, so I took it on on a Winch Hole dive. I caught A LOT of kidding (some of it not so good-natured). The dive the next day was fantastic, though. I really didn't care what others on the boat thought about my pony - which was not in the way on the boat ride to and from the reef, didn't slow down my entrance / exit, and my pony second stage didn't drag along the reef (like the gauge consoles of a few of our 'chuckling' fellow divers).

 

[seanmcfarland]

I dove the same site a few days after this incident with another dive operation. Their requirements for this site are AOW, a surface signaling device (sausage) and a wreck reel. It was my understanding that Amy's gear was not recovered (heresay - that's what we were told). We were told that the Coast Guard had cordoned off the area and were diving it in an effort to recover her gear. They were actively boarding vessels in the area up to the day we arrived (Saturday), but I can't tell you exactly why. I assumed it was to check for proper boat procedures, safety equipment, licenses, etc. We saw nothing and no one on the two days we were out.

We were able to dive the site on Sunday and Monday. The seas were a little rough on the first day but the operator got us out. We did two on Sunday and three on Monday. We normally dive with some type of redundant air source (pony bottle) because you are effectively doing a deep solo dive. There are other divers in the water with you, but once you start fanning and digging for teeth, visibility goes to crap. It is also just a good practice in self-sufficiency. This type of diving requires you to descend the anchor line (which is tied around a coral head or some other large subsurface structure), tie off your wreck reel and head out into the sand to find teeth. Without a line to get back it would be difficult even if you took a heading prior to departing. We had moderate current and 25-30 feet of visibility.

One potential risk I would point out is that the bottom of the anchor is an inherent entanglement risk. I say this from personal experience. If you have 10 or 15 divers in the water, you have 10 or 15 wreck reels connected to the anchor line. When I descended on my second dive of the day I got a line wrapped around one of my valves. Luckily my buddy was coming down the line behind me and unwrapped me. If he had not been, or if I had been unable to untangle myself my choices would have been to cut someone's line (not a prudent thing to do), ditch my gear to untangle myself and don it again, or wait for someone to come down the line or head back. Speaking for myself, the ditch and don is a skill we practice in training, and I had plenty of air in my primary tank and a 30 cf pony, so I was comfortable. I am not speculating, but I can see how someone in a similar situation might be less than comfortable. In the event i had to gut a line, I would have made every effort to re-tie it to assure the person at the other end would have safely returned.

All that being said, I don't know what happened to Amy. I dove with her and Johnny several years ago, and mourn the passing of any diver. I hope we will eventually know more about the incident. I share the sentiment of some on this thread that such knowledge may help us all to be better divers in the future.

 

[openmindOW]

Unless I missed it, could someone with actual knowledge of these ledges describe them?

This is a bit hard, because the "Meg ledges," as they're sometimes called, constitute a fairly broad area. Here is the GENERAL description. Individual sites could vary.

Low ledges, sand bottom, strong current. Are they similar? Sand bottom?

Generally, Meg Ledge dives are in approximate range of 100 feet to 110 feet. I suspect that there are meg teeeth at 120' but I have not gone that deep, as I recall, on meg dives.

The bottom is sand, but below the sand one sometimes encounters marl. Marl is greenish in color with the approximate consistency of clay. The meg teeth are sometimes lying on the marl under the sand lying. The marl can be a few inches to a foot or so under the sand. Divers sometimes fan the sand away in order to search for teeth.

This is a very general statement, but I would generally classify the relief as flat. It's basically flat sand. (Sometimes you see small holes in the sand created by recent meg too divers looking for fossils.)

Current varies, of course.

Some Divers tend to overweight on these dives. They get heavy so they can essentially lay on the sand and look for fossils - by digging if necessary.

 

[fpsndiver]

Meg Ledges that have been hot for about the last 10 years are in proximity to Frying Pan Tower, about 8 or so miles from the tip of frying pan shoals. They are about 37 miles from land, depending upon you departure point, this distance can vary. For most of the charters out of Wrightsville Beach, its a long boat ride out there....usually about 2 hours, more if the boat is slow. There can be current on the site, and occasionally strong enough to prohibit diving. In 2005, Wilmington area diver Greg Mickey was swept away from the diveboat in heavy currents, and perished. One of his dive buddies was recovered by the Coast Guard.....so, currents can be an issue there.

The Disneyland area (its called Disneyland because that is how it used to be..full of tropical fish, spiney lobster, meg teeth, gags, etc.) is often dived for Meg Teeth, and interchangeably called, "Meg Ledge, Fossil Ledge, Tooth Ledge". There are other tooth ledges, like Shark's Tooth Ledge closer to shore, but the most productive area is Disneyland. Disneyland is probably productive because it is broken up. Where it sits near Frying Pan Shoals is pounded by violent seas, surge, and wave actions during Hurricanes. Most of the other ledges are more intact, while Disneyland is more broken up and stewn about. These ledges are prehistoric shorelines from Ice Ages, and contain vast fossil deposits. When the ledges are broken up, the fossils (including shark teeth of all types..small, medium, and large) are strewn about.

Disneyland ranges anywhere from 95 fsw to 110fsw, depending on where you dive it at, the deepest portions tend to be the most productive..the low side of the ledges. Dive boats typically chain in to a large broken off piece of ledge, that look like boulders, there are no mooring bouys out there. Divers descend the anchor line, tie off their reel in proximity to the anchor, reel out, and look for teeth along their chosen path.

Private boats have been diving there for many years, and Spearit Charters also ran those Meg Teeth runs for years. When Greg Mickey was killed, the site was unzipped from its secrecy, and there has been a practical "Gold Rush" for Meg Teeth ever since. The ledge seemed to have dried up in the last year or so, and fewer teeth have been found. When I first dove there, there were Meg teeth laying all over the place, littering the bottom. Now you have to really dig and look to find them. However, after Hurricane Irene, the ledge was broken up again by the surge action produced by the storm, and a new rush was on for teeth at the freshly broken up Disneyland.

32% Nitrox works there, but some local divers on some of the private boats are pushing the limits. On the dive charters I have been on, it is not uncommon to see multiple OOA's and blown decompression with beeping computers. Because of these issues, some of the Charter Operators hate these dives because of the issues that happen on them. Personally, I'd rather dive the Rosin Wreck, Normannia, 18 Fathom, etc. if I'm going to be on that long of a boatride. Disneyland has become a bit of a disaster. These are what all the fuss is about:

 

[fpsndiver]

http://www.charlestondiving.com/pics/teeth.wmv


Everyone keeps asking what the conditions look like, what the bottom comp is....so here you go. This is a video from a tooth dive when the teeth were easier to find. You can see the silt that gets stirred up in a couple of shots...which is what makes navigation difficult. Once we tie in our reels (primary ties) we do tertiary ties every 15 feet or so, to keep the line down. Lots of divers whom are inexperienced with using reels don't know to do this, and can often yield a friggin mess down there. The last charter I was on at Disneyland, I had to delve into contingency planning a bit due to getting entangled in someones slack line that they left down there. I swam through a silt cloud, and came out all tangled up. Fortunately it was close to the anchor line, and was easily dealt with.

 

[CaptJT]

http://www.charlestondiving.com/pics/teeth.wmv


Everyone keeps asking what the conditions look like, what the bottom comp is....so here you go. This is a video from a tooth dive when the teeth were easier to find. You can see the silt that gets stirred up in a couple of shots...which is what makes navigation difficult. Once we tie in our reels (primary ties) we do tertiary ties every 15 feet or so, to keep the line down. Lots of divers whom are inexperienced with using reels don't know to do this, and can often yield a friggin mess down there. The last charter I was on at Disneyland, I had to delve into contingency planning a bit due to getting entangled in someones slack line that they left down there. I swam through a silt cloud, and came out all tangled up. Fortunately it was close to the anchor line, and was easily dealt with.

I don't know what format that link was but no good for me. Here is link of the most recent video I could find on youtube.
Meg tooth trip October 2011 - Southern Maryland Divers - YouTube I see what you mean about the vis and low skill of the divers using reels in the video in one scene in the video as they come back looks a christmas tree of lines comes off the anchor line, that is the very worst way to tie in with a reel. Super chance of entanglement for others coming back.

 

[fpsndiver]

Similar Video JT, the one I posted is from Tommy's boat. Not my video. Similar conditions, and yes, your video is a better example of the reel disaster on the bottom. Better to tie in away from the anchor in proximity...keeping the line low. I also tend to scooter further away than most can swim in their allotted time to get away from the masses. Yes, all those lines on the anchor line are an enanglement hazzard when the divers return to ascend, and if divers push their time or gas....entanglement at a bad time....at the end of the dive, and under time pressure. This in not conjecture about Amy, but this is factual accounts of similar dives on the same site.

 

[snowmaker]

I don't know what format that link was but no good for me. Here is link of the most recent video I could find on youtube.
Meg tooth trip October 2011 - Southern Maryland Divers - YouTube I see what you mean about the vis and low skill of the divers using reels in the video in one scene in the video as they come back looks a christmas tree of lines comes off the anchor line, that is the very worst way to tie in with a reel. Super chance of entanglement for others coming back.

OMG so the rumors are true the Hawksbill's been chopped. Looks like they did a good job but I loved that boat with the huge upper deck with lounge chairs and bean bags for those long rides. I've done a few shark tooth trips with Cape Fear but didn't make it this summer and havn't seen the Hawksbill since it was chopped.

 

[highlandfarmwv]

I am offering this information as I saw it, after many days of worrying, because maybe it will save another. I know I have made a pledge to myself to be less complacent and more attuned to the other divers on the boat.

Amy told me that morning she had done less than 50 dives. Myself and one other gal each invited her separately to be a buddy, but she declined. She did not want to "hold us back". She wasn't looking for teeth. She planned to stay within sight of the anchor line, and only stay a short while. She did not have a pony. She did not carry a reel. She told me she wasn't carrying a computer, because she did not plan to stay down long enough to deco. Integrated weights I think (she said her BC was like mine). Equipment was found with 0 psi. Equipment was not recovered that day, but coordinates given to coast guard.

If I could do that day over, I would have dived with her and stayed by her. That will probably be the biggest regret of my life. Why didn't I recognize that she needed a buddy?

The last I saw Amy, she helped me out of my gear after my dive, because I was terribly seasick and throwing up. That was just how she was. Always putting the other person first.