How to make teams of three work?

[Peter Guy]

Lob -- Perhaps there was no "team failure" here in the sense that "the team failed" but instead, perhaps, the issue was that the team members didn't know what they were supposed to do. It sounds like you did not pull the other two back because you thought it would be best NOT to do so. To my mind that isn't a "team failure" issue but, to the contrary, merely a misunderstanding of the roles of the various divers (teammates).

This, in fact, reminds me all too much of my Fundies class where during the first valve drill my teammate and I both watched the actor shut down both valves. We were quite aware he was doing that and we were prepared to donate as soon as he realized he needed gas, but what we didn't know was that we were supposed to stop him before he reached that point. The instructor got on us for not stopping him but I thought then, and I think now, IF there was a "fault" it was in the instructor for not educating us as to the proper roles.

In your dive, it is pretty clear you all thought you had your roles properly defined but, in fact, you didn't. Now you know so the next time the issue won't happen. Again, to me that isn't a "failure" of the team -- if anything, it is just a result of inexperience.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

All, please read post #11.

I am guilty of passivity, of not having stood my ground (relative to the reference point), of not having stopped the drill and gotten the team back together.

I did this to be nice, to not interrupt a diver who was obviously struggling with the drill.

I made a wrong judgement call but

I do not see what my ears or my ability to listen had to do with this.

... because you're thinking about this all wrong ... there is no "I" in team ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lobzilla]

... because you're thinking about this all wrong ... there is no "I" in team ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

C'mon Bob. That is not funny. Someone kicked my balls and I (!) responded. Or did you want me to act like the Queen and refer to myself as "We"?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

C'mon Bob. That is not funny. Someone kicked my balls and I (!) responded. Or did you want me to act like the Queen and refer to myself as "We"?

I want you to relax and listen to your team mate ... you're making way too much out of a simple error that was, as Peter correctly put it, due to inexperience. There's no need to examine the system ... the system works just fine ... when the people on the team understand how it's supposed to work.

Everybody makes mistakes. Review yours, learn from them, and move ahead ... it really is that simple.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lamont]

When an airplane hits the ground at a speed that is unsurvivable for several hundred people there will be an investigation for the causes. The reports often read like this: Captain failed to do X, First officer did not catch the mistake, airplane fell out of the sky, no survivors. The more useful part of these investigations was that it let to the understanding how team dynamics allowed a mistake to slip through the cracks. With that understanding, procedures and training were revised and a measurable decrease of these incidents achieved. "Safety is no accident".

That kind of analysis doesn't really exist. With experience you will get better at prioritization, and unfortunately there's just no substitute for that.

I can tell you that your major mistake was to prioritize, individually, other concerns beyond just keeping the team together.

There's no perfect answer for what you should have done. One way to deal with it is to simply admit that you're not good enough yet to stick in one spot and to focus on the valve drill and forget about drifting around. Another way to deal with it is to up your communication game and decide as a team that you're going to nail positioning and communication and you will interrupt the valve drill and reposition as many times as are necessary as to keep the team over one spot. There may be other ways of going about this, but since you're not perfect you've got to triage something, and keeping the team together really comes first and can't be triaged out.

At some point you all need to be able to do a valve drill, midwater, with limited buoyancy and trim swing, keeping a decent relaxed pace, not making mistakes and having enough awareness left over to track buddies and the line, and without a lot of happy feet. You need to practice until you get there. You can't do it now, which is why you need to practice, and you just need to figure out *how* to practice and what to focus on.

I can also tell you that focusing on speed is going to fail you. I'll bet you'll be much more effective if you work on individual motions, in isolation and slowly -- including just working on trim and buoyancy while doing things like clipping and unclipping SPGs that aren't even directly practicing valve drills.

 

[Lobzilla]

I want you to relax and listen to your team mate ... you're making way too much out of a simple error that was, as Peter correctly put it, due to inexperience. There's no need to examine the system ... the system works just fine ... when the people on the team understand how it's supposed to work.

Everybody makes mistakes. Review yours, learn from them, and move ahead ... it really is that simple.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob,

As usual on SB things got blown out of proportions and out of context.

Currently, I am mildly aggravated about the unpredictability of our team performance. I am not worried about the individual mistakes (they are easy to identify and to fix) but the dynamics the team creates on top of it.
Of course, this will get smoother with practice but how do we know when it becomes too smooth and complacency sets in. Did the Challenger shuttle blow up because of an o-ring or because of a culture of complacency and ignorance?
I still feel that as a community we are glossing over the challenges and pitfalls of team diving as much as non-DIR divers are glossing over lack of gas management etc.
If I compare our approach of addressing and improving team dynamics with what I experienced in other fields, it falls short. You don't learn to communicate with your fellow pilot by banging up more airplanes. You learn this in a classroom and then apply it in training.

What stops us from taking the knowledge and training from aviation and other endeavors where zero-defect is the goal and just apply it to our needs.
Kind of "The blueprint for survival #2 or how not to create a bigger mess in a team than you can create by yourself"

 

[b1gcountry]

It tail-chasing discussions like these that made me leave scubaboard for 12 months...
See you in 2012!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob,

As usual on SB things got blown out of proportions and out of context.

Currently, I am mildly aggravated about the unpredictability of our team performance. I am not worried about the individual mistakes (they are easy to identify and to fix) but the dynamics the team creates on top of it.
Of course, this will get smoother with practice but how do we know when it becomes too smooth and complacency sets in. Did the Challenger shuttle blow up because of an o-ring or because of a culture of complacency and ignorance?
I still feel that as a community we are glossing over the challenges and pitfalls of team diving as much as non-DIR divers are glossing over lack of gas management etc.
If I compare our approach of addressing and improving team dynamics with what I experienced in other fields, it falls short. You don't learn to communicate with your fellow pilot by banging up more airplanes. You learn this in a classroom and then apply it in training.

What stops us from taking the knowledge and training from aviation and other endeavors where zero-defect is the goal and just apply it to our needs.
Kind of "The blueprint for survival #2 or how not create a bigger mess in a team than you can create by yourself"

... so create a blueprint then ... if that's your desire.

Why bother asking for input from people you don't want to listen to?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lobzilla]

That kind of analysis doesn't really exist. With experience you will get better at prioritization, and unfortunately there's just no substitute for that.

I can tell you that your major mistake was to prioritize, individually, other concerns beyond just keeping the team together.

There's no perfect answer for what you should have done. One way to deal with it is to simply admit that you're not good enough yet to stick in one spot and to focus on the valve drill and forget about drifting around. Another way to deal with it is to up your communication game and decide as a team that you're going to nail positioning and communication and you will interrupt the valve drill and reposition as many times as are necessary as to keep the team over one spot. There may be other ways of going about this, but since you're not perfect you've got to triage something, and keeping the team together really comes first and can't be triaged out.

At some point you all need to be able to do a valve drill, midwater, with limited buoyancy and trim swing, keeping a decent relaxed pace, not making mistakes and having enough awareness left over to track buddies and the line, and without a lot of happy feet. You need to practice until you get there. You can't do it now, which is why you need to practice, and you just need to figure out *how* to practice and what to focus on.

I can also tell you that focusing on speed is going to fail you. I'll bet you'll be much more effective if you work on individual motions, in isolation and slowly -- including just working on trim and buoyancy while doing things like clipping and unclipping SPGs that aren't even directly practicing valve drills.

Lamont, everything you said about the individual skills and the remaining mental bandwith is correct. But I still feel there are some overlying team dynamics at play. A few weeks ago I was going through the same routine with Bob Sherwood and while he is more demanding that all of my local teammates put together it was smooth sailing. I think that the big difference is not just his impeccable skills but also his "presence" as a teammate. He always pays attention and forces you to pay attention as well. How can we acquire these team skills consciously and actively in less than several decades?

 

[kathydee]

It tail-chasing discussions like these that made me leave scubaboard for 12 months...
See you in 2012!

Oh come on -- You don't have to run away AGAIN.

Not all discussions here spiral in circles for hundreds of posts .