Split fin haters... please explain:

[MRadke]

Allison - I'm very new to diving so I find your comments interesting as I decide what fins to take with me on my next trip. I own both twin jets and jets. I have done all of my diving to date using the twin jets, but was able to buy the jets for almost nothing and was thinking about using them for and upcoming AOW class in Cancun. My concerns are the possibility of cramps, which I never experienced in the twins, and whether the toe box will bother the hammer toes that I have on each foot.

 

[mdb]

I spent my first 30 years diving in SP jet fins doing all kinds of diving, including penetration cave diving. On a whim, I tried my sister's bio fins. While I personally found the bios too "mushy" for my likes, I liked the feel of the splits. I went through several other splits and settled on the SP twin speeds. They were the stiffest I found at the time. Due to my years in caves, I rarely flutter. I mostly frog kick. I find them excellent!

I dive mostly Pacific waters with high current potential. I can always keep up, or pass, paddle finners in high current. If I have found one thing I feel they are not as good as paddles on, it is back kicking. While I can do it, it is not AS easy as in paddles.

All in all, the advantages FAR outweigh the one disadvantage. My jet fins seem to stay in the closet. I do photography now and find that their ability to do fine movements (Not so much in the mushy bio fins) are just fine in the splits I use.

Glad you found a fin that works well for you. We produce the bio-fins in several versions. One version is the bio-fin XT. The XT-extra torque-fin is much stiffer than the original bio-fin pro. It provides that low end "push off" or torque that some divers prefer. It also works well with a wide scissors kick, frog kicks etc. Some folks like a bit more tactile feedback. Different models for different folks.

[h=3][/h]

 

[TN Traveler]

When I think of why a Military use could be possible, I think of the huge differences between what they do and what we do...for instance :

1. I don't jump out of helicopters with my freedive fins on--if I did, I would break them.....
2. If a bunch of SEALS were to be dropped 5 miles off shore, to swim in covertly, and then run several miles ( stealth approach to behind enemy lines objective) where peole could be trying to kill them....they would want fins that would NOT utilize much leg muscle, but instead run primarily on the cardio system...breathing rate could be high, this will not matter....speed will not be a big deal in water, only being able to swim in ....when they hit the beach, their legs need to be fresh, and their lives may depend on this..When our diving is done, we can relax and typically will NOT be doing a run for our life...
3. SEALS heading for a beach will not care about silting...in fact, they may like the idea of hurting visibility all around them, like an octopus inking, or goliath groupers with their silting behavior to allow them to functionally disappear to potential predators....So the silting potential of the splits is high, and just fine with military applications...for us, silting is really bad, and split fin divers tend to be the worst offenders....

Dan

This is the exact reason Bob Evans developed the Foil Force Fins - for the military - so they could swim long distances with minimal effort. I have a pair made of the old urethane material and they are fantastic for just cruising in a forward direction (don't try to use them for ANY other kick style). I would imagine that since he is now making them out of the same material he uses for the Hockey Fin that they are even better.

As far as fins for Special Forces - Force Fins make what they call the SD-1 - which is a paddle type fin with an adjustable foot pocket. For a long time these were not even available to the general public and even now they are hard to get because both US and several US Allies keep buying up all they can get for their Special Forces. These can be worn over combat boots, can be quickly shed once they hit the beach and provide the ability to move a tremendous amount of weight (i.e. full battle gear and packs). They also have the Force Fin foot pocket that reduces/eliminates cramping on long/hard swims.

I know lots of Special Forces guys and almost all use Force Fins. Most of them have several pairs - different fins for different jobs. And it is by choice, since the military will provide these guys with whatever they want/need.

The Rescue Swimmers/Divers that jump from helicopters still mostly use Jets since they won't break, give them instant thrust and can move heavy stuff (can't wait until they try the Hockey Fins).

I have to admit I have about 6 pairs of fins and have used Bio-Fins in the past because they were easy on my old/damaged knees and hip. But I have found that Force Fins are as easy on my legs and provide me with more control for picture/video taking. My one concern with the Free Diving Fins is that I enjoy shore diving in places like Curacao and Bonaire and all the Free Diving Fins I have seen are closed pocket and I would rip my feet to shreds getting in and out of the water in places with coral/rock entries. Plus their length concerns me when working in close to a reef. But They sound great for boat diving.

I think the best thing to say about this topic is there is no one perfect fin for all types of diving. And there are certainly enough choices out there that if you do some research you can find a fin that will maximize your enjoyment - which is really what this should be about.

 

[Allison Finch]

Glad you found a fin that works well for you. We produce the bio-fins in several versions. One version is the bio-fin XT. The XT-extra torque-fin is much stiffer than the original bio-fin pro. It provides that low end "push off" or torque that some divers prefer. It also works well with a wide scissors kick, frog kicks etc. Some folks like a bit more tactile feedback. Different models for different folks.

OH!! I'm not "dissing" bio fins! At the time, your company was not making the stiffer fins. I would sure try them, if given a chance.

As for the jet fins...if I were diving in twins, I would use them. The twin speeds push twins well, but I would likely use the jets. I do NOT like traveling with the jet fins. They are way too heavy! I have my original rubber jets and a newer pair of modern material jets. Both too heavy for air travel, IMHO.

 

[mdb]

OH!! I'm not "dissing" bio fins! At the time, your company was not making the stiffer fins. I would try them, if given a chance.

Allison: You found a fin that works for you and that is what this thread is all about. Your profile shows a lot of dives and you live in a great part of the country. Keep Diving !

 

[Bob Evans]

djcheburashka, I would hope our armed Forces are following the Berry Amendment and selecting American made Force Fin's, over Japan products. I will never forget the Japanese engineers going crazy seeing the "Foil Force" at the DEMA show. They were seen measuring my split on the Foil Force, when I rushed off the the bath room. They even tried to buy a pair..but I knew what they were up to at this point. Their design is not new, it was originally designed by a Italian named Mann in the late 60's. Our fin friend in England might have the patent drawing to share with all...if not I will be glad to post them. My design is a curved blade that does not open up like two barn doors. With a foot free pocket and a power and recovery blade return I sure like to see some real fin testing. I can sure testify and have about fin testing in the past covering my products and the others.

 

[mdb]

We are always up for "some real fin testing" a recent example:
TOP STORY / Best Gear of 2011

 

[Bob Evans]

MDB, give me a fu...break. I am no fool at this point in my life. Let's see some real fin testing gang.

 

[mdb]

We just submit a size run of our fins to those who request them for legit tests.

 

[TN Traveler]

We just submit a size run of our fins to those who request them for legit tests.

But you also advertise on their site, as do several of the others that supply gear for testing.

Also I can't find any description of the methodology of their tests. Yes, they might point out bad points but what I have read as flaws are things that any diver would recognize if they used the gear. Just because someone is an instructor does not qualify them as "gear experts". Again you need divers with different diving goals to determine if the gear fits their needs - cave and wreck divers need to evaluate for silting, photographers/videographers need to evaluate for precise positioning, and reef sightseers need to evaluate for long fast swims/stiff current. Plus you need to throw in something to evaluate fins for shore diving vs fins for boat diving.

If you are going to run a test do it right (this is the engineer in me speaking). Set up the test parameters, provide a detailed rating method and do enough tests with divers of various abilities and interests to give statistically relevant results.

My bet is that most manufacturers would not submit fins for this type/level of testing - since it almost a sure thing that there would be major flaws pointed out for all ot them in one way or another - because there is no such thing out there as a "perfect" fin for all uses.