Pervasive "Going Pro" Theme in New Divers

[mathauck0814]

I think this is an interesting thread but I'm a little put off by the eliteist attitude some of you guys have about people who are starting out as if they are babes in the woods without a clue about what they want to do. "Newbies"? reall? Why the label? I'm new at this. I've put off diving half my life because I always though it was too expensive for me. I've wanted to be a diver ever since my mother forced us to wathc Jacque Cousteau on tv in the 60s and 70s. Once I started diving I knew that at some point I would like to have a retirement career that I love because social security and a pension just won't cut it. Will being a DM do it?....from listening to you guys nobody should get involved in diving instructing because there is no money in it. So why should I bother? I had a dream that when I retire I'd like to buy a boat and work out of an exotic resort doing scuba and fishing charters. Part of getting to that goal pushed me to getting certified and pursuing a DM/Instructor certification......and yes.....I only have 24 dives......go ahead guys.....let the insults fly....

... and in other news, it took us 115 posts to offend someone. That's got to be some sort of a record.

 

[mathauck0814]

Ski instructor is different from scuba instructor because, as far as I know, a ski instructor credential is not at the end of a progression of other "levels" that some agency has created. PADI presents the world of scuba diving not as a binary world of "diver" and "professional" but as a progression of levels. A better analogy might be martial arts, where students start as novices and work their way up to black belts or whatever. And that's the reason I believe novice divers feel drawn toward "going pro." A "professional" level certification from PADI or other agency is presented to novices like it's the "black belt" of diving--the terminal level of a natural progression.

I think that's a great point - in skiing the only reason to pursue certification of any type is for the express purpose of teaching - thus the only people who are involved are already at a level where they've achieved a lot of the more pedestrian goals. And thanks for adding a perspective that hasn't been brought up inre: martial arts.

 

[boulderjohn]

A "professional" level certification from PADI or other agency is presented to novices like it's the "black belt" of diving--the terminal level of a natural progression.

As I suggested earlier, that is the problem--it is a simplified path that does not reflect the wide range of possibilities for continued training outside of the world of instructor. I have roughly (not sure) 20 certification cards that I earned after I received my instructor certification and that are not part of the typical instructor path.

 

[Thalassamania]

For what it is worth: I am the only one here on ScubaBoard that has ever put together a yearly diving fatality report. That was when I was part of the National Underwater Data Center. We only used fatalities that either involved US Citizens, worldwide, or Citizens of any country in US waters. DAN's numbers have always come out significantly lower than ours did, I chalk this up to a difference in methodology, the data for our reports was collected actively while DAN's is a rather passive approach. We had three people on the payroll pursuing leads, DAN has (as I understand it) none. There are some who feel that DAN grossly underestimates the number stemming from a lapdog to DEMA stance that it adopted during the Bennett years that has yet to be completely shed.

 

[vcblklion]

vcb-I may have missed it, but I don't see insults flying here. You're still young in your diving career. My advice to you mirrors what others have said. Dive because you enjoy it and take the time to find out what you like to do underwater. I seem to recall something about a cart and a horse. Learn the basic skills, master the advanced skills, gain some real, varied experiences to share with others, bump elbows with those you admire in the profession, then start thinking about becoming a pro. I had a similar dream rattling around the back of my head once that was abruptly squashed when I realized that I despise herding "newbie" divers around underwater. No offense meant. We've all been there, but for me, new divers just aren't qualified to do the dives I want to do. I think the key here is be honest with yourself. We all want to do the Jacques thing because he did some amazing things, but I'm afraid you'll quickly find that dive-mastering aint it.

The term "Newbie" was used several times throughout the thread...I just find it a tad deameaning. Like referring the person to a child. It's also used in video gaming. It's not used as a term of endearment so maybe I'm just sensitive to it. For the record, I want to be a SAFE and KNOWLEDGEABLE instructor so I made the decision to get some dives under my belt before going further in certification. Presently I'm rescue dive certified but by hanging out with some experiened divers I realized that my PADI training did not give me the skills I want or need to move further at this point since they were only interested in taking my money and not teaching me anything. So now I'm taking the time to learn and practice my skills and get stronger so when I take the DM training I can do my 800m swim. My goals aren't because I think I'm going to get rich as a DM or instructor. My goals are fueled by my love for this sport that I've had since I was a kid. It's about having put off my whole life something I wanted to do because other convinced me it was dangerous and expensive. It's about hopefully training people to dive and be safer and taking more interest in thier learning the sport well and giving them a better experience than I got. It's about paying it forward and maybe struggling at the end of my life trying to make a go of something I like doing for myself, instead of sitting in an office hating what I do making a living for someone else....I guess I'm just saying please don't assume that us "newbies" are only concerned with speeding our way to the status of DM so we can be rich and famous and living the life of Riley. Some of us actually have a brain and try to use it...even if we only have 24 dives under our belt at the moment.

 

[boulderjohn]

For what it is worth: I am the only one here on ScubaBoard that has ever put together a yearly diving fatality report. That was when I was part of the National Underwater Data Center. We only used fatalities that either involved US Citizens, worldwide, or Citizens of any country in US waters. DAN's numbers have always come out significantly lower than ours did, I chalk this up to a difference in methodology, the data for our reports was collected actively while DAN's is a rather passive approach. We had three people on the payroll pursuing leads, DAN has (as I understand it) none. There are some who feel that DAN grossly underestimates the number stemming from a lapdog to DEMA stance that it adopted during the Bennett years that has yet to be completely shed.

Do you have any links to published versions of these reports? Can you tell when it was you did this work?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think this is an interesting thread but I'm a little put off by the eliteist attitude some of you guys have about people who are starting out as if they are babes in the woods without a clue about what they want to do. "Newbies"? reall? Why the label? I'm new at this. I've put off diving half my life because I always though it was too expensive for me. I've wanted to be a diver ever since my mother forced us to wathc Jacque Cousteau on tv in the 60s and 70s. Once I started diving I knew that at some point I would like to have a retirement career that I love because social security and a pension just won't cut it. Will being a DM do it?....from listening to you guys nobody should get involved in diving instructing because there is no money in it. So why should I bother? I had a dream that when I retire I'd like to buy a boat and work out of an exotic resort doing scuba and fishing charters. Part of getting to that goal pushed me to getting certified and pursuing a DM/Instructor certification......and yes.....I only have 24 dives......go ahead guys.....let the insults fly....

vcb-I may have missed it, but I don't see insults flying here. You're still young in your diving career. My advice to you mirrors what others have said. Dive because you enjoy it and take the time to find out what you like to do underwater. I seem to recall something about a cart and a horse. Learn the basic skills, master the advanced skills, gain some real, varied experiences to share with others, bump elbows with those you admire in the profession, then start thinking about becoming a pro.

I had a similar dream rattling around the back of my head once that was abruptly squashed when I realized that I despise herding "newbie" divers around underwater. No offense meant. We've all been there, but for me, new divers just aren't qualified to do the dives I want to do. I think the key here is be honest with yourself. We all want to do the Jacques thing because he did some amazing things, but I'm afraid you'll quickly find that dive-mastering aint it.

If we can put down the passion for a moment, I think might be a good discussion ... what would it take for someone to enjoy a "retirement career" as a scuba professional? I got certified when I was 49, became an instructor at 52 ... and with just such an idea in the back of my mind. But here's the thing ... I love to teach. I really enjoy helping new divers improve their skills. But even more, I love taking newbie divers out and showing them some of the special things I've found underwater ... it's really satisfying watching that big grin when I show them a giant octopus, or some tiny, goofy-looking critter that's like nothing they've ever seen before. It's my turn to grin when I see them getting all excited about a crab or sea star that I see so often I don't even notice them anymore. It keeps diving fresh and exciting for me.

But does that lead to a post-retirement career? Somehow I doubt it. By the time I retire I'll 67 years old ... or older. Sure, I'll still be actively diving ... that won't stop until I'm physically unable to get myself into the water anymore. But will I have the energy, the drive, the enthusiasm to put into scuba instruction or guiding people who will rely on me to bring them back safely? Perhaps ... but realistically, very few people actually make a reasonable living out of that sort of work. You have to have something else ... a boat, a dive shop, a side business making videos or teaching underwater photography ... something that can make you stand out from the hundreds of younger, more energetic, better looking dive professionals out there that you'll be competing against.

It's nice to have dreams ... but they have to be grounded in the reality. Being a scuba professional isn't at all just diving ... it's hard work. And in fact, it's easy to get so caught up in the business aspect that it sucks the fun out of just gearing up and getting in the water. It can, and does, burn people out. That's why the majority of people you see working at destination resorts are relatively young and energetic ... a lot of them won't be diving at all by the time they're my age ... much less into retirement.

If you're looking at diving as a potential business ... particularly post-retirement ... approach it just like you would any other business. Start with a plan ... set up your objectives, your timetable, your budget, and then do some research into the reality of the business to see if you can make it work. But do some soul-searching too ... is this really a good fit for what you see yourself doing by the time you reach retirement age?

Nobody ever becomes successful by just taking a class and going to work at a dive shop or resort. You have to know where you're giong, and what it'll take to get you there ... do you have the drive, the resources, the personality, and the motivation to succeed? Those are questions best asked before you invest a lot of time, effort and money ... because dreams don't cost anything, but success does ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[vcblklion]

If we can put down the passion for a moment, I think might be a good discussion ... what would it take for someone to enjoy a "retirement career" as a scuba professional? I got certified when I was 49, became an instructor at 52 ... and with just such an idea in the back of my mind. But here's the thing ... I love to teach. I really enjoy helping new divers improve their skills. But even more, I love taking newbie divers out and showing them some of the special things I've found underwater ... it's really satisfying watching that big grin when I show them a giant octopus, or some tiny, goofy-looking critter that's like nothing they've ever seen before. It's my turn to grin when I see them getting all excited about a crab or sea star that I see so often I don't even notice them anymore. It keeps diving fresh and exciting for me.

But does that lead to a post-retirement career? Somehow I doubt it. By the time I retire I'll 67 years old ... or older. Sure, I'll still be actively diving ... that won't stop until I'm physically unable to get myself into the water anymore. But will I have the energy, the drive, the enthusiasm to put into scuba instruction or guiding people who will rely on me to bring them back safely? Perhaps ... but realistically, very few people actually make a reasonable living out of that sort of work. You have to have something else ... a boat, a dive shop, a side business making videos or teaching underwater photography ... something that can make you stand out from the hundreds of younger, more energetic, better looking dive professionals out there that you'll be competing against.

It's nice to have dreams ... but they have to be grounded in the reality. Being a scuba professional isn't at all just diving ... it's hard work. And in fact, it's easy to get so caught up in the business aspect that it sucks the fun out of just gearing up and getting in the water. It can, and does, burn people out. That's why the majority of people you see working at destination resorts are relatively young and energetic ... a lot of them won't be diving at all by the time they're my age ... much less into retirement.

If you're looking at diving as a potential business ... particularly post-retirement ... approach it just like you would any other business. Start with a plan ... set up your objectives, your timetable, your budget, and then do some research into the reality of the business to see if you can make it work. But do some soul-searching too ... is this really a good fit for what you see yourself doing by the time you reach retirement age?

Nobody ever becomes successful by just taking a class and going to work at a dive shop or resort. You have to know where you're giong, and what it'll take to get you there ... do you have the drive, the resources, the personality, and the motivation to succeed? Those are questions best asked before you invest a lot of time, effort and money ... because dreams don't cost anything, but success does ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thank you Bob...that was very helpful advice. Escpecially coming from someone in my age group. I don't know if I'll have the energy when I'm retired. All I know is I can't retire doing what I'm doing now. I need something of my own to work. And yes you're right, I doubt I can make a go of it just being a dive instructor which is why doing that fits into my other plans which may be just as unatainable or far-fecthed....all I know is taking the steps to get there keep me going every day. It keeps me going to the gym, it keeps me feeling young.......and it keeps me diving....

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The term "Newbie" was used several times throughout the thread...I just find it a tad deameaning. Like referring the person to a child. It's also used in video gaming. It's not used as a term of endearment so maybe I'm just sensitive to it.

Perhaps that's it ... because as I said earlier it's not meant as a derogatory term in common scuba usage ... it simply is an easy word to signify that the person is an inexperienced diver. No one I know uses the term in a demeaning way. You can choose to take it that way if you like ... but don't expect people to stop using it simply to please you. If you're going to become a scuba professional, it's best if you start learning the language the way others in your field use it.

For the record, I want to be a SAFE and KNOWLEDGEABLE instructor so I made the decision to get some dives under my belt before going further in certification. Presently I'm rescue dive certified but by hanging out with some experiened divers I realized that my PADI training did not give me the skills I want or need to move further at this point since they were only interested in taking my money and not teaching me anything. So now I'm taking the time to learn and practice my skills and get stronger so when I take the DM training I can do my 800m swim.

The physical skills are only part of it ... and to my concern, the easiest part to master. If you want to be a good DM, stop being sensitive to words ... focus on concepts. Think about what it takes to become that safe and knowledgeable instructor you want to be ... it begins by asking a lot of questions that begin with the word "why". Every scuba instructor wants to be safe and knowledgeable ... what sets those who are apart from those who merely want to be? My answer is that the truly safe and knowledgeable instructors will never ask you to do anything without being able to explain to you in simple, understandable language why it matters. Knowing something and understanding it are two different things ... a truly safe and knowledgeable instructor understands diving ... understands the reasoning behind every rule they teach someone ... understands how every skill they teach affects a diver, and how they interact together to achieve a desired goal. These are not things you'll learn by taking a class, or passing an exam ... they're things you learn by doing, by asking questions, by keeping an open mind ... and by being willing to accept answers that may not be what you want to hear.

I think you've got good motives, and diving with more experienced divers will certainly take you a long way ... if you don't allow your mindset to get stuck in a single track and ignore other perspectives that may not be a complete match with the direction you've chosen for yourself. There are many approaches to diving ... many to teaching ... and many to planning and preparation. None of them are "right" in every circumstance.

When I was working toward my DM, my course director gave me this piece of advice ... take at least a year, work with as many instructors as you possibly can, work with instructors in different agencies if you can. Each has a set of tools that they use. Learn how to use those tools. Some will be useful to you, others won't ... only you can decide. Ask a lot of questions. Listen to the instructors who take the time to answer them ... even if you disagree with them. Think about not just what you're doing, but why. When it all starts to make sense, then you're ready to move on to instructor.

Took the better part of a year just to make sense out of what he was talking about ... but when it did, turned out to be the best advice I've ever gotten about scuba diving. And, ironically, the person who helped me the most make sense of it all wasn't even an instructor.

My goals aren't because I think I'm going to get rich as a DM or instructor. My goals are fueled by my love for this sport that I've had since I was a kid. It's about having put off my whole life something I wanted to do because other convinced me it was dangerous and expensive. It's about hopefully training people to dive and be safer and taking more interest in thier learning the sport well and giving them a better experience than I got. It's about paying it forward and maybe struggling at the end of my life trying to make a go of something I like doing for myself, instead of sitting in an office hating what I do making a living for someone else....

Those are worthwhile goals ... just go into it with your eyes open ... scuba diving and scuba instruction are not the same thing. You gotta do it not because you love diving, but because you love teaching. It's a bit like marriage ... it can be glorious when it's working for ya, and something you just want to run away from when it's not. It takes a certain commitment to make it work, and it's not going to be all fun and games. Scuba insruction is often about psychology ... managing students who want to do something, but are afraid to do it. You have to learn how to manage emotions ... yours and theirs. That may be the hardest part of being a good instructor ... maintaining a positive attitude toward a student even when you're inclined not to.

I guess I'm just saying please don't assume that us "newbies" are only concerned with speeding our way to the status of DM so we can be rich and famous and living the life of Riley. Some of us actually have a brain and try to use it...even if we only have 24 dives under our belt at the moment.

Learn how to pay attention to what's important, and not sweat the small stuff ... that's a good step along the path you're embarking along. I don't mean that to sound condescending ... just a bit of hindsight from someone who's been where you're at right now ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fjpatrum]

The term "Newbie" was used several times throughout the thread...I just find it a tad deameaning. Like referring the person to a child. It's also used in video gaming. It's not used as a term of endearment so maybe I'm just sensitive to it. For the record, I want to be a SAFE and KNOWLEDGEABLE instructor so I made the decision to get some dives under my belt before going further in certification. Presently I'm rescue dive certified but by hanging out with some experiened divers I realized that my PADI training did not give me the skills I want or need to move further at this point since they were only interested in taking my money and not teaching me anything. So now I'm taking the time to learn and practice my skills and get stronger so when I take the DM training I can do my 800m swim. My goals aren't because I think I'm going to get rich as a DM or instructor. My goals are fueled by my love for this sport that I've had since I was a kid. It's about having put off my whole life something I wanted to do because other convinced me it was dangerous and expensive. It's about hopefully training people to dive and be safer and taking more interest in thier learning the sport well and giving them a better experience than I got. It's about paying it forward and maybe struggling at the end of my life trying to make a go of something I like doing for myself, instead of sitting in an office hating what I do making a living for someone else....I guess I'm just saying please don't assume that us "newbies" are only concerned with speeding our way to the status of DM so we can be rich and famous and living the life of Riley. Some of us actually have a brain and try to use it...even if we only have 24 dives under our belt at the moment.

I think you missed the whole point of this thread, to be honest. No one assumes that newbs are trying go zero to hero because they think they're going to get rich and be famous doing it. They assume newbs do that because of enthusiasm, but apart from that what is it? That's the point of this thread. What about scuba diving makes newbs think the can or should do a zero to hero progression that doesn't exist in other sports?

I think you're taking the newbie moniker a little too seriously too. Most of the time that is said here (and every other place I've seen or heard it used) it is meant simply to imply that someone is new to diving (or whatever activity). Nothing more, nothing less.

As for your reasons for choosing early on in your diving career to pursue a pro path I congratulate and commend you. I find it very unfortunate that you feel (apparently) the way you do about your "day job" and hope you find what you're looking for from diving.