Pervasive "Going Pro" Theme in New Divers

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If you want to improve you gopher skills DM is a great way! You will learn to carry tanks, to pass out paperwork, to load a truck and the all important student herding!

This is sort of exactly what I picture when people talk about how they'd like to DM/Teach in their retirement. I shudder at the mental image of my grandparents schlepping tanks from the dock to the boat, working late into the night in the compressor room and having to work hard, physically, every single day.

I guess it takes all kinds - but that doesn't sound like much of a retirement lifestyle to me...
 
Historically there are between ten and thirty deaths during instruction (amongst US Citizens, or in US waters) each year. The typical case involves a OW student who becomes separated from his or her instructor and is later found ... dead. When a good autopsy is done, the cause of death is typically an AGE. Lies on the medical form rarely have anything to do with this.

This seemed to me to be so totally incorrect that I first went through the last two DAN fatality reports, case by case, to see what they say about fatalities associated with instruction....(For this quote I omitted the statistics I found that contradict that.)

For what it is worth: I am the only one here on ScubaBoard that has ever put together a yearly diving fatality report. That was when I was part of the National Underwater Data Center. We only used fatalities that either involved US Citizens, worldwide, or Citizens of any country in US waters. DAN's numbers have always come out significantly lower than ours did, I chalk this up to a difference in methodology, the data for our reports was collected actively while DAN's is a rather passive approach. We had three people on the payroll pursuing leads, DAN has (as I understand it) none. There are some who feel that DAN grossly underestimates the number stemming from a lapdog to DEMA stance that it adopted during the Bennett years that has yet to be completely shed.

Do you have any links to published versions of these reports? Can you tell when it was you did this work?

All the NUADC reports are available on RUBICON.

I looked through Rubicon and read what I could find. I first of all learned that the early DAN reports are in fact the NUADC reports, and DAN took over their work some time ago. The NUADC-only reports are therefore relatively old. The newest NUADC document I could find was from 1995, and it was a comprehensive analysis of diving fatalities from 1970 to 1994.

McAniff, JJ (National Underwater Accident Data Center, Department of Physical Education, Health, and Recreation, College of Human Science and Services, University of Rhode Island, 1995)​

You may be interested in its conclusions (these are direct quotes--emphasis added):

The population estimates presented by NUAOC are reasonable and conservative and fall between those presented by other studies.

Fatality rates per 100,000 have decreased considerably, (8.65 in 1976, ••• 2.67 to 3.44 in 1993).

Student deaths are at an all-time low, (1.50 per 100,000 in 1993).

With literally millions of dives, working scuba instructors as a group have suffered only three fatalities (two were heart related) in the 24 year period of this study.

It can be said that recreational scuba diving is a relatively safe activity with fatality rates very near ordinary swimming.

In summary, as far as I can see, the NUADC studies in which you participated indicated that diving in general was much safer in 1995 than in 1976, and that student deaths during instruction had dropped during that period of time to "an all time low."

I also found some studies by Edmonds on diving fatalities in Australia and New Zealand that used NUADC data. One comprehensive multi-year study found 5 deaths during scuba instruction, but it did not say what the reasons were.

The Rubicon search system was not particularly good at finding these reports for me, so I may have missed something that indicates the horrific rate of death in scuba instruction that you describe. I would be interested in reading the reports that indicate this, but I am going to need your help in finding them.
 
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I don't want to be an instructor particularly, but PADI has 2 educational ladders after Rescue Diver.

PADI is not the only agency out there.
You might want to look at SDI/TDI or IANTD for very interesting curricula.

I want to improve my skills and my theoretical knowledge, so I looked for Cave-Instructors in my region, because I think they are closest to pilots in their attitude towards safety.
 
This is sort of exactly what I picture when people talk about how they'd like to DM/Teach in their retirement. I shudder at the mental image of my grandparents schlepping tanks from the dock to the boat, working late into the night in the compressor room and having to work hard, physically, every single day.

I guess it takes all kinds - but that doesn't sound like much of a retirement lifestyle to me...
Depends on the person ... I could've well envisioned my grandfather doing that sort of work. He owned several apartment buildings and worked long hours doing hard labor right up till the day he fell off a roof while he was repairing it ... he was 87 at the time.

I have a good friend who I met on the ski slope at Sun Valley the year he retired ... 20 years ago. He's 85 now, still skis and scuba dives ... although he only dives warm water anymore. He did decide a couple years ago to give up windsurfing with his great grandkids, because it gets a bit choppy and physical down around the Gorge. But back when I met him, people half his age would've had trouble keeping up with him.

Not everyone wants to settle down in a sunset community and play golf after retirement ... some people just have a need to be more active and physical. I hope to be one of them ... besides those oversize beer cans they use for diving in the tropics really ain't all that heavy ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
PADI is not the only agency out there.
You might want to look at SDI/TDI or IANTD for very interesting curricula.

I want to improve my skills and my theoretical knowledge, so I looked for Cave-Instructors in my region, because I think they are closest to pilots in their attitude towards safety.

I agree with these statements. Especially the latter.
 
I think that some of it has to do with the relative ease of learning to scuba dive. From experience, it takes a good few days of bruises to be able to "ski" ie stay upright, and it would take years of dedication to be what I would call a "good skier". But with scuba you can be diving after a few hours (without any bruises) and lets say 50 dives to be a good diver which you can complete in a month of dedication. Before anyone starts ranting that 50 dives is nothing blah blah, I know it is nothing from a professional point of view, but people think it is easy to scuba dive therefore it must be easy to teach scuba. Of course you need hundreds of dives in different environments to have the experience necessary to be a good teacher, but for the new divers it all seems so easy!

I don't think we can blame PADI or anyone else for making scuba so much fun or easy can we?
 
...people think it is easy to scuba dive therefore it must be easy to teach scuba.
There's certainly truth in this! It's just like the idea people have that since they can speak English, they can come to Thailand and magically become English "teachers" after a 6-week "teacher training" course. In both cases, this kind of thinking is woefully misguided.
 
He's 85 now, still skis and scuba dives ...Not everyone wants to settle down in a sunset community and play golf after retirement ... some people just have a need to be more active and physical. I hope to be one of them ... besides those oversize beer cans they use for diving in the tropics really ain't all that heavy ...

Agreed. I'll ski and dive so long as my bones will carry me. I'll just not be doing it for work (now or ever, for that matter) I'll be doing it for me and letting someone else schlep the tanks and do the hard stuff.
 
I shudder at the mental image of my grandparents schlepping tanks from the dock to the boat, working late into the night in the compressor room and having to work hard, physically, every single day.
I'm somebody's grandmother, and I carry tanks! The expressions on the faces of young guys like you when I show up on a dive boat and they realize that I don't need any "help," that I dive "like a pro," and that I'm strong both in mind and body, is precious.
 
I'm somebody's grandmother, and I carry tanks! The expressions on the faces of young guys like you when I show up on a dive boat and they realize that I don't need any "help," that I dive "like a pro," and that I'm strong both in mind and body, is precious.

... imagine their surprise when you mention you have a grandchild ... I'm certain my grandmother never looked that good ...:thumbs-up

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
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