DM's Duty

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Sometimes Dave your statements are just a tad too brash, this one is too cocky, for anyone. No DM is going to save a heart attack victim that has drown. (deleted text) I believe your company to be a very, very good company but sometimes even you cross over as being the only company to do this type of diving, and this is not true. kevin.

1) Did Dave assert that their DMs can save a heart attack victim?

2) I did not read this as Aldora being the ONLY dive op that does (insert your service). He merely pointed out what Aldora does reference the on-going discussion of DM responsibilities. Perhaps others do some things similar....some things better...some things differently.
 
1) Did Dave assert that their DMs can save a heart attack victim?

2) I did not read this as Aldora being the ONLY dive op that does (insert your service). He merely pointed out what Aldora does reference the on-going discussion of DM responsibilities. Perhaps others do some things similar....some things better...some things differently.

1) Sorry Ron for not making it clear enough for you. He said no one has died within sight, now read what I said. IF someone did have a major, then this statement would be tough to clear. While it is good that they try to stay in a close unit, it usually cant be controlled to the extent of saying there would not be ever a problem in saving someones life ALL the time while diving with Aldora.
2) Then this type of comment is advertizing and should be placed in the business section. I read it differently.
People have become accustomed to Cozumel diving as a baby sitting resort course dive destination. To much responsibility is being placed on the dms as the result of divers diving once a year and NOT keeping up their skills during the year gap. They just stay inept at diving and then need this type of safe guard in place so they wont die, IMHO this is not good for the dive industry at large. They go to other dive destinations and aren't baby sat, then they have major issues with the sport. A lot have narrow escapes, most do not know how to even set up their gear. I told my wife as she was learning this year to NEVER let anyone put her kit together. Divers on her boat thought she had dove for years, she had 15 dives. THAT is responsible diving. I also taught her how to use a smb. I also taught her not to worry if she gets separated, just blow the bag, have a three minute safety stop, the boat will pick you up. Don't panic. Fortunately for her in the 'crazy' currents she dealt with them like a trooper and did not get separated. But she did tell me she thought about the process for getting lost a lot during her dives. It seemed to calm her down knowing what to do. This is responsible personal diving. To simply say we will wipe your a$$ during the dive for you while on Coz. I dont like that.
DAVE did say they do help their divers weight correctly and try to give assistance to better the divers skills. Noble. However what about guys like me that are skilled, what do you have to offer me? I dont mind diving with newer divers at all. I cant escape it. For experienced divers they know the drift and can handle the dive without the need of a dm. However law states they must be there. Cool with me but dont make me dive in a pack. I take pictures and the group does not wait. I dont want a dm freaking because I stay behind shooting.
I just dove with a young family, mom, dad, two boys and a girl. They had dives but where not capable of being on their own at all. They did very well in the crazy currents. They listened well to the advise about the currents and how to use them. The kids where a blast. I took lots of pics for them. The dm said to me, Kevin if you want to hang and take shots no problem, I wont worry about you, that was very cool to me. I would loose them for maybe five minutes, catch up, play a little then shoot on my own. And do it all over again. The dm was greatly needed in this situation. It was like herding cats. Funny to watch, but dangerous all the same. He earned his tip. Like what was just stated also every dive needs to be tailored. Albeit to have some sort of guide to go by is good for most.
By the way Ron no comment on the air share issue?
 
Geez Kevin. I go back to a heart attack victim. Even if in sight of a DM, perhaps the best you can do is ensure that they are recovered.

As for the rest, are you a big fan of the dive ops that had the owner die and a DM paralyzed due to an idiotic extreme deep dive on air...and another cross channel crossing in an apparently unseaworthy boat that sunk and placed multiple people's lives at risk?

And you want to make a case about sharing air on a dive?

As for my general ideas on improving safety in Cozumel, read Post #221 here:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/co...your-group-your-dm-who-should-do-what-23.html

If deploying a surface buoy/safety sausage is a viable element to advancing the self-reliance of divers in Cozumel, when should that be done? A cruise ship customer with zero dives past OW certification comes in to dive. Who trains them in the use of a safety sausage and when?
 
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Dear Kevin,

I am sorry if you saw my post as advertising. It was posted to answer the big question many have had about the responsibilities of DMs in Cozumel. The posted attachment is exactly what is given to each of our DMs, outlining what they are expected to do-- and has never been used as a marketing tool, indeed, this is the first time it has been made public.


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers
 
Geez Kevin. I go back to a heart attack victim. Even if in sight of a DM, perhaps the best you can do is ensure that they are recovered.

As for the rest, are you a big fan of the dive ops that had the owner die and a DM paralyzed due to an idiotic extreme deep dive on air...and another cross channel crossing in an apparently unseaworthy boat that sunk and placed multiple people's lives at risk?

And you want to make a case about sharing air on a dive?

As for my general ideas on improving safety in Cozumel, read Post #221 here:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/co...your-group-your-dm-who-should-do-what-23.html

If deploying a surface buoy/safety sausage is a viable element to advancing the self-reliance of divers in Cozumel, when should that be done. A cruise ship customer with zero dives past OW certification comes in to dive. Who trains them in the use of a safety sausage and when?
You just made my point about divers not doing skill training while not in the ocean. These divers are the ones making the sport seem dangerous.
For the record I dont support anyone that does a dive like the one you mention. And I saw several boats go across the channel this last trip and wont likely be the last. By the way you better head there when they do the mayan crossing in their canoes and stop them before someone gets hurt.
And YA I want your opinion on the air share. What's so hard about that? You dont seem to think it is dangerous? Risky? Foolhardy as some put it. For me, I could care less. Never needed it.

---------- Post added April 7th, 2012 at 12:41 PM ----------

Dear Kevin,

I am sorry if you saw my post as advertising. It was posted to answer the big question many have had about the responsibilities of DMs in Cozumel. The posted attachment is exactly what is given to each of our DMs, outlining what they are expected to do-- and has never been used as a marketing tool, indeed, this is the first time it has been made public.Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

Dave to an extent they are good, as I said it is good to have a base of procedure to have a safe dive. It is literally impossible to envoke this every time 100%. So far every op I have used does a similar talk/briefing before the dive. Maybe they used to dive for you.:D
 
I have attached what I see are the duties of a DM in CozumelView attachment 120681

I am sure that some of you will want to tear it apart mainly because we keep our groups together but no one has ever died within the sight of the DM.


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

While that maybe true for your organization, or possibly even for Cozumel in general, I think that, as written, it covers a bit too much ground, for example: TANCREDI v. DIVE MAKAI CHARTERS.
 
1.- Novice and expert Divers should be separated in different boats, do different dive profiles and/or have a second divemaster or even a third one. It is not fair for novice to be rushed or experts to follow novice. Not nice.
2.- DM should NOT be considered as "supermen". They are human too and can have a number of issues with their own equipment too.
3.- A DM should allways state clearly "what to expect" from this particular dive and go over and over emergency procedures to save ALL , including him/her self if needed.
4.- The most important skill of a CERTIFIED DIVEMASTER is: TO BE ABLE TO SOLVE PROBLEMS FAST and BE ACCURATE. Safety and Professionalism goes first, even before an extended bottom time/price matters, where limits (even whith computers) are probably being pushed.
5.- State clearly that ALL in the boat are CERTIFIED DIVERS, so they all are expected to behave as such. Remind divers that if they have a question, fear, issue or something..... SPEAK UP! and consult with the divemaster to assure the nicest experience ever.

My advise regarding DM topic: Look for shops where the DM looooove and enjoy their job and are well paid for it. There´s a lot of good DM in Coz. Ask and take opinions of fellow divers, now that you really know what is important to look for. No nanny type, no superman type. Just a pro.
 
I have attached what I see are the duties of a DM in CozumelView attachment 120681

I am sure that some of you will want to tear it apart mainly because we keep our groups together but no one has ever died within the sight of the DM.


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

Hi Dave, thanks for sharing the document with the board. I think that it helps divers better choose what type of dive op they want to give their business to. I dont see anything inherently flawed with your approach as long as all participants understand the operation before hand. I do find the alternate airsource usage to extend someones dive time a little unusual...

I also think the statement that no one has ever died..... to be a poor choice of words...

Looks like you have a nice reliable operation and is suitable for vacation divers.... Good Luck.

Cheers,
Roger
 
I have attached what I see are the duties of a DM in CozumelView attachment 120681

I am sure that some of you will want to tear it apart mainly because we keep our groups together but no one has ever died within the sight of the DM.


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

Dave,

I enjoyed reading your DM duties. For the past three months I have been studying the PADI DM Theory Course and the BSAC Dive Leader Theory Course. So many of your DM responsibilities I found very thoughtful and applicable to what I had been studying and/or experienced in my short dive career. When I take my DM resident course next month, I will keep what your team does in mind and apply it where I can, when warranted.

From the business stand point I found your starting statement towards safety very paramount and followed by your quality plan exceptional. I would not like to speculate just how many other operations have a written safety plan, much less a written quality plan. So to share these with SB, I commend you.

While I think some posters are taking your DM Duties a little bit too literal for their own use, I have found great value added to my own personal experiences. Anytime a business takes the time to formulate both a written safety plan and a written quality plan I think they are way ahead of their peers who do not have any written plans.

The statement, "...no one has ever..." might not have been the best word choice, but I feel I knew what your intent was, which was not malicious. (I guess my glass is always half full :wink:).

Thanks for sharing...

~Michael~
 
1.- Novice and expert Divers should be separated in different boats, do different dive profiles and/or have a second divemaster or even a third one. It is not fair for novice to be rushed or experts to follow novice. Not nice.
That's nice in the ideal but may, especially for smaller ops, be more difficult in practice. An op is at the mercy of the mix of divers that show up on a given day, and sending along extra DM's may not be economically and/or logistically feasible.
 
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