A somewhat sad conversation last night

[boulderjohn]

... that DIR anathema, "an equipment solution to a skill problem."

I never once liked this statement, and I dearly wish it would go away.

Everything in scuba is arguably to some extent an equipment solution to a skill problem. If we had the skill to breathe under water whilst seeing where we were going and were able to make good time doing it, we would not need a scuba unit, mask, or fins. While that is an absurd, extreme example, it is true to some extent of every piece of scuba equipment. We can dive with a tank cradled in our arms if we wanted to--a BCD simply makes it all easier. We can propel ourselves with fins anywhere we want, but many DIR divers use scooters without apology. Every piece of equipment we use in scuba makes our diving easier in some way, so every piece of equipment is in a way an equipment solution to a skill problem.

For me, the issue is this: does this equipment provide an unnecessary ease while at the same time creating a potential problem, such as a failure point? Does the potential problem override the added ease? If it is a potential failure, how great is the potential for that failure, and how serious is the failure should it occur?

To me, those are the critical questions that must be considered. A simple phrase like "equipment solution to a skill problem" short circuits that thinking, much as the bleating of the sheep in Animal Farm drowns out rational discussion.

 

[stevensamler]

the guy in the video seemed to be showing some improvement by the end of the dive, getting up off the bottom. I think you made the right call politely informing him that his diving could improve.

I think he blew through his al/80 so fast that it made him slightly positive at shallower depth , that's what got him off the bottom. You would think common sense would prevail and this diver would change his diving technique and configuration , the guy must have been exhausted and probably has sore toes.

 

[danvolker]

I'm not Bob, even on a good day, but I believe his point was that this guy's failure to achieve neutral buoyancy has nothing to do with him not being DIR. Using the video of a crappy diver to prove the necessity of DIR is like that current Geico commercial with the people doing the taste test. It simply doesn't apply.

​

Pete,
The post TS&M made was about why DIR has such a bad connotation in some circles...
I am trying to illustrate something.....Yesterday at the BHB, the dive area was packed...Probably at least a dozen instructors were there , and a very large number of good divers. Even though this guy cut right through the dive classes, and a great many divers saw him and how bad he was, no one said anything. No one wanted to "rock the boat"...or no one wanted a confrontation, or ...no one felt like it was appropriate for them to say anything.
I was the only one that decided to bother with this..that decided to attempt to help this guy.
You have to consider the most likely response, even if you are polite, is that the guy is going to tell you to screw off.

In any event, seeing the world through a DIR mindset, I think there is more incentive to "try and help", to try and say something that might make this guy change.

So my point is that while DIR gets a bad rap, our efforts have helped many people. Back when we first started talking about DIR ideas around 1996 or so, it was not-- "you need a bp/wing" or "you need Fundies".........It was more along the lines of "your hoses are wrong--here is why, and try this, you may like it better".....or...."you are swimming head up and feet down....there is a better way"...or, of course, the "whole discussion of the long hose primary, and how buddy based diving can improve adventure and safety". Halcyon was not even available to anyone outside of us, for almost a year after Robert came up with the design....but we were still trying to help people with DIR ideas, that cost nothing....but that made sense....Maybe DIR people are just hated because we are the ones that say something. ???

 

[nimoh]

my computer is an equipment solution to my skill problem of not being able to communicate directly with the internet

 

[boulderjohn]

[/I][/B]So my point is that while DIR gets a bad rap, our efforts have helped many people. Back when we first started talking about DIR ideas around 1996 or so, it was not-- "you need a bp/wing" or "you need Fundies"............Maybe DIR people are just hated because we are the ones that say something. ???

Maybe it has to do with calling the people you were trying to help then "farm animal stupid" if they disagreed with you. That might have had something to do with it back then, too.

 

[lowviz]

This thread is finally starting to make some sense. Reduction to core values.

Any dive agency that intentionally brands itself as being "the best" will necessarily have problems in the "warm and fuzzy" arena. Where is the surprise in this?

 

[danvolker]

Maybe it has to do with calling the people you were trying to help then "farm animal stupid" if they disagreed with you. That might have had something to do with it back then, too.

Well, that first was used to describe Bill Renaker ( his concept that "you are the most important person" and his teachings on why it is OK to leave a buddy in a cave at the first hint of trouble) , or a small number of other north Floridians that took great pleasure in doing things George considered extreme endangerment, and most of you would as well...George did have a way with words though, you have to admit

I don't believe I ever used this on an individual , ever.... I may have made a few broad brush references to a small mumber of the north Florida crowd that George and the WKPP was upset with --in posts on Cavers or the Tech list... but this had nothing in common with my efforts to help recreational divers to experience some of our DIR ideas.....

 

[BDSC]

He said he knew some instructors at Jupiter Dive Center, and in fact, this is a great place for high level PADI instructors that have been through GUE Fundies....so they do know what to look at, and how to fix him.

So let me ask you Dan, would those same high level PADI instructors know what to look for and how to fix him if they didn't have GUE Fundies? Would other high level PADI instructors who have not been through GUE Fundies know what to look for? Would just PADI training be enough for them to recognize the guys problem?

 

[nimoh]

So let me ask you Dan, would those same high level PADI instructors know what to look for and how to fix him if they didn't have GUE Fundies? Would other high level PADI instructors who have not been through GUE Fundies know what to look for? Would just PADI training be enough for them to recognize the guys problem?

I think there are OW students that could fix him

 

[Crush]

TSandM has managed to start a thread which has distilled and concentrated years of SB threads into one thread which describes a dominating aspect of SB. Now if she could only start similar threads on the topics of pony bottles/Air2 and split fins we could all go home, never to come here again.