Can people really get scuba certified without knowing how to swim?

[DukeAMO]

I worked on it with her after her certification until she was proficient. We did no "public" diving until she was confortable with it. First public dive we did was at Ginnie Springs... and guess what, the skill was needed that very day.

Phew, that was close! Good thing she had you to work with her. I don't think that dive shop did anyone any favors by certifying them when they couldn't pass the tests. Maybe they could have gotten them on the same day with a little bit of extra instruction. It just sounds lazy.

 

[gcarter]

There is none- you show up to class, review academics, go dive 6 times- boom, you're AOW

I knew that, just curious as to why Ben (#149) would say he had to do a test...

 

[windapp]

What happens, God forbid, if you come up out of air and had no air in your BC. First thing you need to be able to do is SWIM to the surface. A BC is not supposed to be used to lift you to the surface. It is a buoyancy COMPENSATING device, not an elevator device. So once on the surface, with the empty BC, you will need to tread water(swim) while trying to manually inflate the BC. Then guess what????? You will need to SWIM to shore or the boat.

Anyway, I am sure you get my point. Learn to swim then get your certification. I sure would want my buddy to be able to swim.

If you are have no air in your BCD then you are a fool for dumping all the air in your BCD in an OOA situation. In this case, you would have to orally inflate at depth, or if you were in a CESA situation, you would have to do an EBA because there is no way you could do a CESA from depth against significantly negative buoyancy.
You KICK to the surface, not swim.
You KICK at the surface while you inflate your BCD, and if you are too exhausted to inflate your BCD while KICKing, you drop your weights to get buoyancy. Keep in mind, if you are properly weighted, you will be neutral or slightly buoyant (due to the completely empty tank) at the surface.
Then you put your snorkel in your mouth (pulled of my BCD pocket in my case), and KICK to your exit point, the same as you would have done if you still had air left in your tank.

Don't get me wrong, I think that everyone who is around water should have basic swimming skills, but, when you are in full gear, you don't swim because you can't swim in full gear. This is why we wear fins. If you don't believe me, try diving without them sometime.

On another note, my kicking technique has improved substantially since I started diving. It used to be if I was being chased by a crippled shark while swimming, I was going to die. Now I might stand a chance.

As a side note, here is the Canadian Swim to Survive standard:

• ROLL into deep water
• TREAD water for one minute
• SWIM 50 metres

It is extremely minimal, and is prescribed as the minimum skill set required to survive if you accidentally fall into deep water. I you don't have these bare bones skills, you should not be scuba diving or doing any other recreational activity that brings you near the water.

 

[drbill]

Without knowing how to swim? Heck, I've seen several OW certified divers who don't even know how to dive (and even one certified "instructor" who didn't have a clue).

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

As a side note, here is the Canadian Swim to Survive standard:

• ROLL into deep water
• TREAD water for one minute
• SWIM 50 metres

It is extremely minimal, and is prescribed as the minimum skill set required to survive if you accidentally fall into deep water. I you don't have these bare bones skills, you should not be scuba diving or doing any other recreational activity that brings you near the water.

okay, no Canadian jokes, but ROLL INTO DEEP WATER is a survival skill

 

[windapp]

okay, no Canadian jokes, but ROLL INTO DEEP WATER is a survival skill

The roll into deep water part is how you get into the water before you do the other two skills. The idea is to simulate accidentally falling in.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

The roll into deep water part is how you get into the water before you do the other two skills. The idea is to simulate accidentally falling in.

So wouldn't the other 2 skills be to survive the first one

 

[rharris27]

I have recently failed the PADI swimming requirements on the course, I am really annoyed because I CAN swim. The requirements are 8 lengths (400m) and tread water for 10 minutes. I managed 4 lengths before my body caught up with me, and I lasted 4 minutes treading water.

The 4 lengths shows I am a swimmer of averageness, I just feel that it should not be the amount of lengths you do, but the fact that you should be able to swim (which I can). I find it easy to think of it in this way, most people can run, but ask them to run a distance, 800m for example and not many people can run this distance without some form of training and regular practice. I have been told I MUST complete this in our next weeks pool session, I do not feel a week of practise is going to make me be able to this, possibly a few weeks training, but I do not have the time.

As of me treading the water, my body does not have a high level of buoyancy on it's own with just lung capacity. I do have a significant muscle mass in comparison to fat content, which I have read can be a major affect on buoyancy as you have to use more strength to require floatation (not sure how true this is). But still 4 minutes treading water shows I can do it to a certain extent.

Having failed these recently I am just disappointed that there is a specific distance for the swimming and a certain time limit for the treading water elements, as I know in myself that I can swim (maybe not to a high standard, but good enough to be confident and help others) and I can tread water for a reasonable amount of time in my opinion. I did carry on with my SCUBA training and I had no problems what so ever with it, and my instructors seemed pleased with my progress, but I will feel harshly done by if I cannot complete my course on the basis of me being a average swimmer.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I have recently failed the PADI swimming requirements on the course, I am really annoyed because I CAN swim. The requirements are 8 lengths (400m) and tread water for 10 minutes. I managed 4 lengths before my body caught up with me, and I lasted 4 minutes treading water.

The 4 lengths shows I am a swimmer of averageness, I just feel that it should not be the amount of lengths you do, but the fact that you should be able to swim (which I can). I find it easy to think of it in this way, most people can run, but ask them to run a distance, 800m for example and not many people can run this distance without some form of training and regular practice. I have been told I MUST complete this in our next weeks pool session, I do not feel a week of practise is going to make me be able to this, possibly a few weeks training, but I do not have the time.

As of me treading the water, my body does not have a high level of buoyancy on it's own with just lung capacity. I do have a significant muscle mass in comparison to fat content, which I have read can be a major affect on buoyancy as you have to use more strength to require floatation (not sure how true this is). But still 4 minutes treading water shows I can do it to a certain extent.

Having failed these recently I am just disappointed that there is a specific distance for the swimming and a certain time limit for the treading water elements, as I know in myself that I can swim (maybe not to a high standard, but good enough to be confident and help others) and I can tread water for a reasonable amount of time in my opinion. I did carry on with my SCUBA training and I had no problems what so ever with it, and my instructors seemed pleased with my progress, but I will feel harshly done by if I cannot complete my course on the basis of me being a average swimmer.

You can snorkel 800m, the treading was a problem for me because of my negative buoyancy also , but you don't have to tread, you can float also, it took me some practice but I was able to do it on my back for 15mins long as I kept moving with slow gentle strokes instead of the having to exert myself trying to tread. Keep trying you'll be able to pass

 

[rharris27]

You can snorkel 800m, the treading was a problem for me because of my negative buoyancy also , but you don't have to tread, you can float also, it took me some practice but I was able to do it on my back for 15mins long as I kept moving with slow gentle strokes instead of the having to exert myself trying to tread. Keep trying you'll be able to pass

I don't think my SCUBA instructor is allowing the option of the snorkel and fins, otherwise that would have been my 1st choice, but I will have to see if he can make an exception. Hopefully I will overcome this problem, it's just time and money having to repeat if I fail,which I haven't got at the moment, Cheers for the advice, I'll take it into consideration