Can people really get scuba certified without knowing how to swim?

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You make this statement based on what....? Salt water, or do you extend that generalization to fresh water as well?

I can lie on the bottom of a swimming pool, totally relaxed, with air in my lungs and no weights. Seems to me that implies a somewhat negative buoyancy.

Could be NEUTRAL buouancy, no?

[thumbsup]

But seriously, are you saying that at the surface of the water (salt or fresh, your choice) with air in your lungs that you sink to the bottom? Not asking "can you get to the bottom and stay there for a bit" but rather "do you sink from the surface"?
 
Could be NEUTRAL buouancy, no?

[thumbsup]

But seriously, are you saying that at the surface of the water (salt or fresh, your choice) with air in your lungs that you sink to the bottom? Not asking "can you get to the bottom and stay there for a bit" but rather "do you sink from the surface"?

I live on a lake, and yes, with what I would describe as 3/4 full lungs I can sink to the bottom in fresh water and stay there. Very handy when I'm putting my dock in, but not so much for swimming. Fortunately, salt water makes swimming a much more enjoyable experience. :D

I guess my point is that I can pass the basic swim tests in fresh water in spite of a slightly negative buoyancy, but I am much more comfortable under water.
 
I live on a lake, and yes, with what I would describe as 3/4 full lungs I can sink to the bottom in fresh water and stay there.

Not trying to be semantic here, but when you say "can sink" do you mean "can get myself to descend" or "absolutely sink, every time, no matter what."? The latter is "negatively buoyant" while the former is "neutrally buoyant."
 
In fresh water, if I stop treading water or swimming my body (including head) goes down completely under water (with reasonably full lungs), without additional effort to push or swim myself down. Not sure of your definition but this could pass for "neutral", but I think I'm closer to that in salt water.
 
Since I last posted on this thread I have been swimming alot, I stated in a previous reply that I was "out of shape", I kinda lied just for the simple fact that the I felt there must be different level of fitness required for swimming. I am 6' 1", and I am at a perfect weight for my height, I regularly run, and also I play football alot, I do weights training in the gym at least 4 times a week and have been for the past 5 years. So I am technically not out of shape. With me swimming alot recently I spoke to a instructor to find out why I did not have the physical stamina to last 200m (8 lengths) NON STOP (baring in mind i can comfortably swim 30 lengths but I NEED a break after a couple of lengths). The instructor looked at how I was swimming and told me my technique is good BUT he noticed I am negatively buoyant, and told me I get tired because I have to use more muscle power to keep me afloat, and it is the same for when I tread water, I asked him for techniques which he showed me but they don't seem to adding to the time or the stamina.

I completely understand the whole point of why the watermanship is in place, but surely PADI have compromises for people in my situation (negatively buoyant people), because I know of disabled people who learn to SCUBA dive. I realise negative buoyancy is nothing compared to a disability but there is obviously some compromise within the rules.

With me finding out this news about being negatively buoyant I was kinda annoyed because I am studying Marine Biology at university and for me to be able to SCUBA dive adds a lot more job and career opportunities for me, and at the moment, even after all the practise I feel it's a bridge to far, unless there is a compromise I can work out between me and my instructor.

You have the same problem I had. I had to work to hard to keep my head above water, and treading was a real workout. That's why I elected to do the snorkel, did the float on my back, I even tried the dead mans float, and it didn't work because I would sink to fast. During the back float I had to move constantly, but it wasn't as much effort as treading, because instead of having to keep head up, I just had to keep my face up. The oddest thing is when I put on 3mil shorty I need weight.
 
I found this thread today. I know how to swim, but can't effectively. When swimming and I become exhausted, I sink right there without floatation. I have videos my wife has taken of me laying (not sitting) on the bottom of our LDS pool in 14 feet with mask, tank top, and shorts breathing from a reg and a tank laying beside me. I am DEFINITELY negatively bouyant. We were marrried almost 24 years when we got certified and she didn't know I couldn't swim. During the OW class we had to tread water or float for 10 minutes with no gear and the instructor had to focus all attention on keeping me concentrated, I BARELY made it. I can vividly remember almost drowning twice (to the point I had given up when help arrived) and was told of another time as an infant by my mother. I am comfortable in the water. I have excellent bouyancy control. I dive fresh water with zero weight and can dive salt water with my car keys (that's not true, I need four pounds). I am 6 feet and 225 pounds, so I am not a straight pin (toothpicks float). I have mystified multiple instructors at our LDS with my negative bouyancy, most recently peak performance bouyancy (my wife has issues wth bouyancy control).

I tell anyone I don't float...I am a sinking turd. I had always wanted to dive but didn't think I could. In addition to not floating, I was claustrophobic. I say was because last time we were in COZ we completed our AOW with a cave dive and wreck dive, I am still not comfortable in overhead environments. If we are diving togehter and you go into a cave...rest assured I will be waiting when you come out, unless I'm low an air in which case you are too and I will go for help.
 
I love having this argument on SB. I don't think the ability to swim is in any way connected to scuba diving.
 
"During the summer of Liberation, I came home from Paris with two miniature aqualungs for my sons, Jean-Michelle, then seven, and Philippe, five. The older boy was learning to swim but the younger had only been wading. I was confident that they would take to diving, since one does not need to be a swimmer to go down with the apparatus."

Jacques Yves Cousteau

(The Silent World)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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