Can people really get scuba certified without knowing how to swim?

[nimoh]

Question for you, I surface, start my swim back to the boat, Why would I need to tread? did I ditch my gear somewhere? My BCD is inflated and keeping me on the surface, I'm not using air if I have my snorkel. And also with the constraints of the gear, I more than likely won't be using any stroke that I used to pass the swim test, I'll just be using my legs with my fins.

the swim test is not required, do the 300m mask/fins/snorkel (at least for PADI anyway). The situation you describe will be more likely than any that would require an actual swim.

 

[DukeAMO]

I understand, and at this moment in time I know in myself I could easily swim 100m, it's just the requirements, were a push to far for my body, especially since I have not swam properly in over 4 years. My biggest fear is that I won't be able to pass the course in the time limit I have, because of this regulation, which I feel distance should not be an option, just that the instructor needs to see you have adapt capabilities to swim (which I do have). With time and practice i could re-train my body to do this with ease, but time is of the essence as my instructor wants me to do it in a few days time on our next session.

Hm... if you're getting really tired after 100m then your swimming technique does need help. The back stroke and breast stroke are easier for me too, and if it's just the crawl stroke that you have trouble with, then I would also push back and get the instructor to let you change the stroke or do the longer swim with fins and snorkel. I think it took me a while to go 200m (10 or 15 minutes?), but I was only slightly sore and tired because I was never breathing very fast. I alternated back stroke and breast stroke, with a bit of the side strokes thrown in. If your muscles are holding up but your breathing is too fast, SLOW DOWN your kicks, strokes, and breathing. Kick and stroke with both sides while you breathe in, and do another full cycle while you breathe out. Don't let your legs hang way down - stay close to the surface. Don't pull your legs above the surface either - tiny splashes, no washing machine. Keep your legs straight - bicycle kicks waste energy. Finally, keep your fingers close together, mitten style. That should make you more efficient.

It's also possible that you need to get in better shape. Gearing up and shore diving is quite strenuous and it will get your heart rate up, more so than swimming 200m should. You don't want to be gasping for breath when you get in the water. Practicing swimming for an hour per day (or until you start to feel tired, whichever comes first) should get you in shape fast!

The way I learned how to tread water is to alternate doing a back float with sweeping my hands back and forth in wide SLOW arcs just under the surface while using long SLOW kicks in an upright position. Easy and relaxing, once you learn how to do it.

 

[windapp]

1The treading water is probably more of an issue. In the case of a BC failure, you may be at the surface waiting for a boat and having to support yourself, although the buddy system helps with this.

1. If my tank and BC are not benefiting me in any way, and I have a long wait for the boat to get me, I am going to ditch them, and my weights.
2. I have never had a dive where, without my kit, I don't have plenty of buoyancy. In the ocean, even a 3 mm will float me, and I float at chest level in my 7mm two piece.
3. In these situations, I see myself floating, not wasting energy treading water.

I think that it is the most basic swimming skills they teach our kids that are the most important in scuba diving. Things like sticking your face in the water, and opening your eyes. If you have been sitting at the bottom of a swimming pool because you like how calm it is, you know that having your regulator kicked out of your mouth isn't going to phase you. Weather you can do the front crawl, breast stroke, or butterfly are really pretty irrelevant, as long as you can kick well in a pair of fins.

 

[nimoh]

1. If my tank and BC are not benefiting me in any way, and I have a long wait for the boat to get me, I am going to ditch them, and my weights.
2. I have never had a dive where, without my kit, I don't have plenty of buoyancy. In the ocean, even a 3 mm will float me, and I float at chest level in my 7mm two piece.
3. In these situations, I see myself floating, not wasting energy treading water.

I think that it is the most basic swimming skills they teach our kids that are the most important in scuba diving. Things like sticking your face in the water, and opening your eyes. If you have been sitting at the bottom of a swimming pool because you like how calm it is, you know that having your regulator kicked out of your mouth isn't going to phase you. Weather you can do the front crawl, breast stroke, or butterfly are really pretty irrelevant, as long as you can kick well in a pair of fins.

I agree...mostly.

I am also a floater, but some people sink, even with a 3mm on, and many dive with no wetsuit. I would also agree that if the gear is weighting you down, and you need to stay afloat for a while, ditch it. However, if I can see the boat coming, you can bet that I am going to tread water rather than ditch a couple of thousand dollars of gear because I know I can do it.

We are talking about 2 things here, the minimum to get through OW, and survival skills. The former is just the minimum for an aspect of the latter, and if you are struggling to do it, then you should practice it not just to get to the minimum, but past it.

 

[rharris27]

Dude, you're not thinking this through. You say you can swim 100m. Great. What happens if you surface 200m from the boat, and can only swim half-way back? This problem is further compounded by the fact that you can't tread water for more than 4min. Probably less after swimming 100m, at which point, as you say above, your "body caught up with you." You'd be in an awful lot of trouble at that point, no?

The requirements are not there to set an impediment to getting certified. The requirements are there to ensure that you can safely execute a dive once you're certified. Your instructor needs to certify that he believes you can do this. If you can't pass the swim requirements, how can you expect the instructor to sign off on your certification.

You might need to face the fact that you're not currently in good enough shape to get certified. Though, you should be able to get your instructor to allow backstroke and you'll probably be fine. Don't get all caught up in "time is of the essence" as you're just putting more pressure on yourself than is warranted. Call the shop/instructor today and get them to agree to allowing backstroke. If they say "no" ask them for the phone number for their PADI regional representative...

Since I last posted on this thread I have been swimming alot, I stated in a previous reply that I was "out of shape", I kinda lied just for the simple fact that the I felt there must be different level of fitness required for swimming. I am 6' 1", and I am at a perfect weight for my height, I regularly run, and also I play football alot, I do weights training in the gym at least 4 times a week and have been for the past 5 years. So I am technically not out of shape. With me swimming alot recently I spoke to a instructor to find out why I did not have the physical stamina to last 200m (8 lengths) NON STOP (baring in mind i can comfortably swim 30 lengths but I NEED a break after a couple of lengths). The instructor looked at how I was swimming and told me my technique is good BUT he noticed I am negatively buoyant, and told me I get tired because I have to use more muscle power to keep me afloat, and it is the same for when I tread water, I asked him for techniques which he showed me but they don't seem to adding to the time or the stamina.

I completely understand the whole point of why the watermanship is in place, but surely PADI have compromises for people in my situation (negatively buoyant people), because I know of disabled people who learn to SCUBA dive. I realise negative buoyancy is nothing compared to a disability but there is obviously some compromise within the rules.

With me finding out this news about being negatively buoyant I was kinda annoyed because I am studying Marine Biology at university and for me to be able to SCUBA dive adds a lot more job and career opportunities for me, and at the moment, even after all the practise I feel it's a bridge to far, unless there is a compromise I can work out between me and my instructor.

 

[danpass]

I'm trying to remember what I did but it was at least 100m goggles only, tread water 10min (I mostly floated on my back lol) then 300m, I think, in fins/mask/snorkel.

I don't remember if there was a break in between as it was no big deal since there was no time limit with the swim portions so I took it half easy (to get it over with)

He had the PADI cards and was working it step by step.

 

[olphart]

FWIW, the story goes that Commander Lionel Crabb, who trained "frogmen" back in the 40's, could only swim 100 yds at best.

 

[RJP]

With me finding out this news about being negatively buoyant...

I disagree with your premise. It is virtually impossible for a human being with air in their lungs to be negatively buoyant. Some people - such as those with high-muscle/low-fat - are "less positively buoyant" than others. That's not the same as being negatively buoyant. Think about Michael Phelps: few people have a higher muscle/fat ratio than he does, but I've never seen him sinking to the bottom. (This point is just about inate buoyancy... not to say you need to be that strong of a swimmer.) The human body is >70% water, so 70% of your body weight is neutrally buoyant. Unless the other 30% of your body is comprised of lead the air in your lungs will be able to compensate for that.

Most people who think they are negatively buoyant have poor breathing/swimming technique, are uncomfortable in the water, are trying to keep too much of their head/shoulders out of the water... or some combination of the three. Because of this they kick their legs, flail their arms, breath like they are running the 100m high-hurdles, and ultimately exhaust themselves. Anyone - and I mean ANYONE - can be taught to float motionless at the surface with their mouth and nose out of the water for an extended, if not indefinite, period of time.

 

[k ellis]

Since I last posted on this thread I have been swimming alot, I stated in a previous reply that I was "out of shape", I kinda lied just for the simple fact that the I felt there must be different level of fitness required for swimming. I am 6' 1", and I am at a perfect weight for my height, I regularly run, and also I play football alot, I do weights training in the gym at least 4 times a week and have been for the past 5 years. So I am technically not out of shape. With me swimming alot recently I spoke to a instructor to find out why I did not have the physical stamina to last 200m (8 lengths) NON STOP (baring in mind i can comfortably swim 30 lengths but I NEED a break after a couple of lengths). The instructor looked at how I was swimming and told me my technique is good BUT he noticed I am negatively buoyant, and told me I get tired because I have to use more muscle power to keep me afloat, and it is the same for when I tread water, I asked him for techniques which he showed me but they don't seem to adding to the time or the stamina.

I completely understand the whole point of why the watermanship is in place, but surely PADI have compromises for people in my situation (negatively buoyant people), because I know of disabled people who learn to SCUBA dive. I realise negative buoyancy is nothing compared to a disability but there is obviously some compromise within the rules.

With me finding out this news about being negatively buoyant I was kinda annoyed because I am studying Marine Biology at university and for me to be able to SCUBA dive adds a lot more job and career opportunities for me, and at the moment, even after all the practise I feel it's a bridge to far, unless there is a compromise I can work out between me and my instructor.

I hate to say it but RJP is on to something with his last post. I started out unable to swim and felt I too was negatively buoyant. I would sink like a rock but then I learned how to compensate it because my instructor went out on a limb for me and helped me learn these skills. As snorkling is a no-brainer since it requires virtually no effort I passed the skills and never looked back for a few years. I did take divemaster with the determination it would be a sink or swim and I did everything humanly possible to hone my swimming skills and I finally did perfect them enough to where though I was no olympic swimmer I passed these requirements. I then took swimming classes where I realized I was more confident in the water then I was able to swim. My swimming instructor would throw rings in to the deep and I would pick them up flawlessly where other students were scared to venture out. I then and only then realized that swimming is not all technique its more confidence and just a little tiny bit of know how.

Because I realized water is not bad as long as you can breathe I started drown proofing which I never tried before and aced it on the first couple of trys.

More then anything in the world 95% of swimming, floating and anything else to do with water is simply being comfortable enough to just go out and have a great time. So if this battleship anchor can learn to float I really feel anyone can.

Youll do fine just relax and work on it and have fun doing so. The more relaxed you are when you practice the faster youll learn to float

 

[pjhansman]

It is virtually impossible for a human being with air in their lungs to be negatively buoyant.

You make this statement based on what....? Salt water, or do you extend that generalization to fresh water as well?

I can lie on the bottom of a swimming pool, totally relaxed, with air in my lungs and no weights. Seems to me that implies a somewhat negative buoyancy.