I am officially a PADI OW Certified Diver!!!!!!

[800Phelps]

awesome. i thought you did it all in 2 days. props for taking your class in such poor vis. enjoy diving it's a blast!

 

[Merlin_AZ]

Congrats!
I'm considering getting started, or waiting until the spring.
I'm not sure Lake Pleasant ever has visibility past 6-10 ft., so it probably doesn't matter when I do it.
I'm sure it would be more comfortable with better visibility. I dove Bora Bora and Moorea in June and it was pretty nice.

 

[mfox007]

Congrats!
I'm considering getting started, or waiting until the spring.
I'm not sure Lake Pleasant ever has visibility past 6-10 ft., so it probably doesn't matter when I do it.
I'm sure it would be more comfortable with better visibility. I dove Bora Bora and Moorea in June and it was pretty nice.

Thanks Merlin!

The lake is down 50-60' for the winter. I hear that the vis is much better when the lake is at it's highest (I think the spring).

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It is very possible that in low viz conditions, the instructors knew exactly where the students were. I sometimes take less experienced divers who sometimes lose sight of me, even though I have them in sight.

You seem to be quick to accuse.

To the op. Congratulations! Enjoy every dive.

What you do is irrelevant. Your profile says nothing about being an instructor. Therefore I doubt you are familiar with the requirement for direct supervision. Leading less experienced divers in no way relates to leaving as yet uncertified divers on the bottom without a certified assistant or another instructor. It is a very serious violation of standards and a damn good way to end with an injured or worse student. Which is why it is prohibited. If the student cannot see the instructor then the instructor cannot see them.

Again a very serious violation of standards and damn poor judgment on the part of the instructors. I'd never let anyone I cared about train with them based on this alone.

 

[TMHeimer]

mfox007, Good job in difficult conditions (we have waves, tidal currents, etc., but I would say a fair bit better conditions than yours for students doing checkout dives). It bodes well for you that you kept your head when left alone. I was left alone at depth by a buddy soon after being certified, so I know the uneasy feeling. Based on what you say, I can't see how anyone would disagree at all with Jim.

 

[LowDrag]

To mfox007,

Congrat's on your cert. I agree with what has been said on a couple of different points also. First, when my wife and I did our cert in June our viz was sometimes 1' to 2' at best sometimes it opened up to 3' to 5'. When we did our CESA we had a DiveCon on the bottom with us while our instructor ascended with someone. It is never good to be left alone at our stage of the game. Secondly, I completely agree with TSandM about diving locally. Our viz in the Puget Sound definitely isn't the Caribbean but it is still really cool to dive here even when the viz isn't so great. I am glad you kept your cool in the poor viz, I know after completing my OW in viz like that I felt much more comfortable while diving.


Keep diving and stay safe!!!

 

[Reck Diver]

What you do is irrelevant. Your profile says nothing about being an instructor. Therefore I doubt you are familiar with the requirement for direct supervision. Leading less experienced divers in no way relates to leaving as yet uncertified divers on the bottom without a certified assistant or another instructor. It is a very serious violation of standards and a damn good way to end with an injured or worse student. Which is why it is prohibited. If the student cannot see the instructor then the instructor cannot see them.

Again a very serious violation of standards and damn poor judgment on the part of the instructors. I'd never let anyone I cared about train with them based on this alone.

Where in the op does it state anywhere that the instructor left the student. It states the students could not see the instructor(s). The student states 4-5 ft. viz. than means if here were standing he couldn't see his own fins. I know that in these situations, an experienced diver can often see beyond what a distracted newbie is able.

Don't you think the instructors could add some clarity before you make such a serious accusation? Seems like you are doing a "shoot first - aim later". If there "damn poor judgment" on display, it very well may only be yours.

 

[mfox007]

To mfox007,

Congrat's on your cert. I agree with what has been said on a couple of different points also. First, when my wife and I did our cert in June our viz was sometimes 1' to 2' at best sometimes it opened up to 3' to 5'. When we did our CESA we had a DiveCon on the bottom with us while our instructor ascended with someone. It is never good to be left alone at our stage of the game. Secondly, I completely agree with TSandM about diving locally. Our viz in the Puget Sound definitely isn't the Caribbean but it is still really cool to dive here even when the viz isn't so great. I am glad you kept your cool in the poor viz, I know after completing my OW in viz like that I felt much more comfortable while diving.


Keep diving and stay safe!!!

Thanks LowDrag!

The visibility definitely sucked, but I think it better prepared me for clear water diving down in Mexico or the Caribbean. I think the fact that I was in a lake also helped, so I didn't have a fear of a shark or whale popping out of nowhere.

I do agree there was a better way to do the CESA test, but I had no issues with the situation. I feel that the instructor had confidence in me to stay calm and perform the skill (seeing is that as soon as I completed my CESA, we were considered graduates!). I had changed tanks between dives that day so when we were performing the CESA I was still sitting at around 2000psi. The rest of the group was between 600-900psi. With 10 students in a straight line underwater, the instructors started at opposite ends (essentially two at a time). Most likely do to the low air situations of some of the divers. At some point, one of the instructors either finished with his half or just stayed at the surface.

Once it got down to the one girl and I, I kept signaling to her "OK". I also signaled to her every minute or two for an air psi check. Just in case she got low, and needed my octo to make an alternate air source ascent. I don't think I was every in "danger", but I can see everyone's concern.

I'm not being over confident. I just feel I do a good job of listening, understanding, and implementing what I learn.

---------- Post Merged at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:54 PM ----------

Where in the op does it state anywhere that the instructor left the student. It states the students could not see the instructor(s). The student states 4-5 ft. viz. than means if here were standing he couldn't see his own fins. I know that in these situations, an experienced diver can often see beyond what a distracted newbie is able.

Don't you think the instructors could add some clarity before you make such a serious accusation? Seems like you are doing a "shoot first - aim later". If there "damn poor judgment" on display, it very well may only be yours.

This is kind of what I was saying. The instructor could have been working with another diver for all I know, but I just couldn't see anyone.

---------- Post Merged at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:54 PM ----------

mfox007, Good job in difficult conditions (we have waves, tidal currents, etc., but I would say a fair bit better conditions than yours for students doing checkout dives). It bodes well for you that you kept your head when left alone. I was left alone at depth by a buddy soon after being certified, so I know the uneasy feeling. Based on what you say, I can't see how anyone would disagree at all with Jim.

Thanks!

Had it been in ocean water, with current I might have felt a little different!!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Where in the op does it state anywhere that the instructor left the student. It states the students could not see the instructor(s). The student states 4-5 ft. viz. than means if here were standing he couldn't see his own fins. I know that in these situations, an experienced diver can often see beyond what a distracted newbie is able.

Don't you think the instructors could add some clarity before you make such a serious accusation? Seems like you are doing a "shoot first - aim later". If there "damn poor judgment" on display, it very well may only be yours.

They were doing CESA's. That means the instructor is 25 feet away from the students on the bottom. That is a violation. No excuse for it. In those conditions you reduce the numbers and take them one at a time or in buddy pairs. You never leave uncertified students on the bottom alone. What would the OP have done if the girl gave him an ok and then bolted? What would you tell him to do with all your vast teaching experience and knowledge of the standards? These were not yet certified divers. They were OW students on checkouts. They are never to be left alone. Your "experienced diver can sometimes see things the new one can't" is just so much BS. Making out the dim shadow of a student is not being in control.

Your statements seem to try to justify unsafe behavior with new divers and students. I hope no one listens to this advice. There are enough problems with instructors taking shortcuts. One serious one for sure not long ago in Virginia. Vis was better but student was not under direct supervision. She's dead. Those instructors who take these kinds of chances are just a split second away from another one.

 

[Reck Diver]

They were doing CESA's. That means the instructor is 25 feet away from the students on the bottom. That is a violation. No excuse for it. In those conditions you reduce the numbers and take them one at a time or in buddy pairs. You never leave uncertified students on the bottom alone. What would the OP have done if the girl gave him an ok and then bolted? What would you tell him to do with all your vast teaching experience and knowledge of the standards? These were not yet certified divers. They were OW students on checkouts. They are never to be left alone. Your "experienced diver can sometimes see things the new one can't" is just so much BS. Making out the dim shadow of a student is not being in control.

Your statements seem to try to justify unsafe behavior with new divers and students. I hope no one listens to this advice. There are enough problems with instructors taking shortcuts. One serious one for sure not long ago in Virginia. Vis was better but student was not under direct supervision. She's dead. Those instructors who take these kinds of chances are just a split second away from another one.

Very dramatic reply..... but you do see where the op says instructor(s)..... and never says they were left alone.....Nor does anyone make any mention (other than you) that instructors view of the student was that of a dim shadow. I am well aware of situation written in the OP. I read it carefully. I also stand by my own experiences. You are making your accusations based on speculation. Sadly you make assumptions based on that which you have no knowledge. This speaks volumes of your own ability, experience and judgement.

You frequently seem in a hurry to discredit, place blame and accuse others. If you are going to do that, at least make an attempt to get all the facts.