what makes a diving agency a diving agency?

[drrich2]

People are taught to dive in conditions equivalent to, or better than, what they trained in. Someone who trains in calm, clear tropical waters wearing swim trunks then tries shore diving with rough entries in cold water locations with current issues in a 7 mm wet suit can run into trouble. I expect Quebec would be hazardous for someone fresh out of a 'quickie' OW course at a tropical vacation destination.

On the other hand, unlike people who learn to drive (and will almost certainly do so locally), many divers don't dive locally, so there's something to be said for certification upon meeting a broad minimum standard, with the stipulation their limitations are reasonably explained.

Scuba training is marketed as safe and fun, not dangerous and hard. That could probably use some changing. The impact of task loading on divers and their decreased capacity for it while diving (it's amazing how 'walk, talk and chew gum' level multi-tasking on land becomes complex and difficult underwater), the risk of panic, lung over-expansion injuries, how to respond to equipment failures, these things could be useful. I'm not talking about rescuing fellow diver skills, how to haul people out, etc...

So, should we use more scare tactics in OW courses? Testimonials from people wheel-chair bound by DCS, or had a partner drown after buddy separation in a limited viz. environment, or had a 1'rst stage freeze up in cold water, or struggled with buoyancy and extra weighting with a 7 mm wet suit diving cold, mediocre viz. water off the west coast led to burning through their air supply a lot faster only to find a shore exit in high surge has a nightmare...

Is risk assessment the skill that needs more attention in OW courses?

Richard.

 

[Doppler]

Is risk assessment the skill that needs more attention in OW courses?

Richard.

Yes, in my opinion.

 

[The Chairman]

If you're a Driving Instructor, you have a legal responsibility to teach the student to stop for red lights.

But you're not liable for them texting and missing the light. THAT'S the nature of the preponderance of accidents that are happening.

Rather than "making it easier"

That's just it. Agencies aren't simply trying to make the classes easier; they are trying to make them more relevant and instill a safer regimen. It's only human nature to vilify the new. I get that my mother walked 10 miles to school in the snow, uphill both ways, but how is subjecting students to this kind of mythical regimen going to help them solve a quadratic equation? Making things harder just because you can is a fool's errand and can often produce unintended results.

People are taught to dive in conditions equivalent to, or better than, what they trained in. Someone who trains in calm, clear tropical waters wearing swim trunks then tries shore diving with rough entries in cold water locations with current issues in a 7 mm wet suit can run into trouble. I expect Quebec would be hazardous for someone fresh out of a 'quickie' OW course at a tropical vacation destination.

We've actually have had deaths of northern divers here in the Keys not adjusting their weights. Both dove aluminum tanks with dry suits up north and then steel tanks with swim suits here. Any variance can kill you if you're over confident about your abilities.

Is risk assessment the skill that needs more attention in OW courses?

Limits. New divers just don't understand their limits or that they actually have them. Ask one to tell you their limits on your next dive. They might tell you 500 psi and that's about it. Unfortunately, time, depth, gas, skills, training and physical limitations are rarely discussed with OW students as a systematic way to evaluate a dive scenario. Yes, that's a part of risk assessment, but for me it's the quintessential basis for all my diving.

 

[beaverdivers]

Is risk assessment the skill that needs more attention in OW courses?

Yes,

The hardest choice is to call a dive - before or at anytime.

Para-gliders ask the question before they take off: Is there absolute reason that I should launch?

 

[Edward3c]

We've actually have had deaths of northern divers here in the Keys not adjusting their weights. Both dove aluminum tanks with dry suits up north and then steel tanks with swim suits here. Any variance can kill you if you're over confident about your abilities.

Unfortunately the myth that a cold water diver can safely dive anywhere is often spouted as gospel by those who've never dived tropical waters.

I include in my lessons on where to dive the story:

* of the dry-suit diver who insisted on wearing 30lb of lead on their first Caribbean dive. Hit the bottom (6m) with both eardrums gone, or
* the diver who disregarded their depth gauge (as it was too light) and got bent having run out of air at 50m on a planned 20m dive.

Kind regards

 

[xyrandomyx]

Limits. New divers just don't understand their limits or that they actually have them. Ask one to tell you their limits on your next dive. They might tell you 500 psi and that's about it. Unfortunately, time, depth, gas, skills, training and physical limitations are rarely discussed with OW students as a systematic way to evaluate a dive scenario. Yes, that's a part of risk assessment, but for me it's the quintessential basis for all my diving.

It seems to me that risk assessment and knowing your limits go hand in hand -- a dive that's 'safe' (relatively speaking) for you could well be a suicide mission for me (with my very limited training and experience).

I would've liked if more attention was paid to evaluating risks in my OW classes. I mentioned in another thread that I'm only now, quite a number of dives after completing an OW class, starting to develop a decent mental checklist of questions I need answered in order to decide whether I'm comfortable with making a dive.

---------- Post Merged at 10:54 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:35 PM ----------

Unfortunately the myth that a cold water diver can safely dive anywhere is often spouted as gospel by those who've never dived tropical waters.

I include in my lessons on where to dive the story:

* of the dry-suit diver who insisted on wearing 30lb of lead on their first Caribbean dive. Hit the bottom (6m) with both eardrums gone, or
* the diver who disregarded their depth gauge (as it was too light) and got bent having run out of air at 50m on a planned 20m dive.

Kind regards

I did my OW course in temperate water and was specifically warned to pay careful attention to depth if diving in tropical waters. The instructor pointed out that the visual references -- the level of light, the surface which looks closer than it is -- could be very misleading, especially when you're used to dim light and the surface disappearing at about 6m.

 

[DCBC]

...Unfortunately, time, depth, gas, skills, training and physical limitations are rarely discussed with OW students as a systematic way to evaluate a dive scenario.

Exactly! Why not? Why is this NOT a requirement for every diver training program? I think it should be, don't you???

 

[erichK]

Unfortunately the myth that a cold water diver can safely dive anywhere is often spouted as gospel by those who've never dived tropical waters.

I include in my lessons on where to dive the story:

* of the dry-suit diver who insisted on wearing 30lb of lead on their first Caribbean dive. Hit the bottom (6m) with both eardrums gone, or
* the diver who disregarded their depth gauge (as it was too light) and got bent having run out of air at 50m on a planned 20m dive.

Kind regards

No certification of any kind will prevent idiots - especially macho idiots (these were guys, were they not?) from demonstrating their true nature. In my own experience diving off the BC coast in a dry suit or in the upwelling Antarctic current in the Galapagos in a thick, hooded wetsuit is generally more challenging than driving in a skinsuit or less in the tropics, but any diver who is unwilling to do a proper buoyancy check should be disqualified from diving by any responsible dive operator. To me, that seems to be simply a matter of exercising due diligence, much like insisting that a passenger in one's car wear a seat belt - or not ride sitting on the roof.

 

[The Chairman]

Exactly! Why not? Why is this NOT a requirement for every diver training program? I think it should be, don't you???

It is with all of my classes... at every level.

 

[endurodog]

There are benifits to having the certifications easier than they were. (Just so it's clear I was certified NAUI in 83 in a 13 week course and the instructor was a task master). It increases the number of divers. More divers gives the industry more of a political voice, it allows for more dive ops to stay in business, more dive resorts, more money for developement of gear, more options for gear.

Can you imagine where we would be as a community if certs were still a 13 week course of getting yelled at and your butts kicked. Scubaboard wouldn't even be what it is.

In the PADI system divers are told their limits for their certs.

Now all of this takes into account the safety factor, doesn't matter how many people we get in the scuba life if they are getting hurt or dying. But we are not seeing that the present system is worse or better than the old system in a safety sense.