long hose configuration...good idea???

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Ben_ca:
Jeff,
I thought the changes were not final... I haven't seen anything on Quest just the posts on DIR-X.... I still would check my SPG if we were somewhere where a direct ascent would not be practical or safe (away from anchor line).... it's a part of being a "thinking" diver
Well, I haven't had any conversations with the mothership ever since I put on my tinfoil hat. But my understanding is that it is a done deal. If you are using rock bottom properly, you should never "need" to see your spg. If you change the the "plan" on the fly (or want to change it), then yes, evaluate your current gas supply and make an informed decision.

Now, we were hold outs for a long time. We used to show the spg for the drill, but when we started having multiple stages/deco bottles, it seem to be more of a waste of time than anything else.

YMMV
 
quote<<No set gas plan other than the thirds. 1/3 down, 1/3 around and 1/3 up. >>

Wow. The more I read the more you guys scare me. The rule of thirds is, 1/3 out, 1/3 back, and 1/3 held in reserve in case of emergency. You should never be coming back to shore empty. In fact, a gas management seminar should be in your future, you should be planning for a failure and managing your gas as if you have to provide enough for you *AND YOUR BUDDY* to make it back to the surface. It may seem like you are cutting your dives short because you are not using all your gas, but it will sure be worth it the time it doesn't cut the rest of your life short. You've already had one OOA, start planning for the next one (and then just maybe it will never happen.)
Not intending to sound too harsh, I don't even have over 20 dives in, but I have taken free gas management seminars (and Grateful Diver on the NW Orca Bait forum is willing to send notes from his seminar to people).
gomi_
 
quick question regarding the long hose configuration. speaking from a rec diver point of view

facts

1) an out-of-air diver might grab the reg from your mouth (hence you breath from the reg that will be donated)
2) the reg is routed behind your head

the question

a panicked diver pulling a reg to breath from will probably not unwind the hose from around your body, I pressume he'd just pull it. so ok you can easily "unhook" yourself from the situation by just going under the hose but why take the risk of a panicked diver pulling you from behind your neck and also having your mask removed (in case the hose is pulled so hard that it moves the mask strap out of place)?
 
If you haven't used the setup, it may not be easy to see that the hose simply slips over your head if you duck it -- it won't remove your mask unless you have a snorkel attached to it.

BSAC did a whole bunch of experiments, trying to prove that the long hose was dangerous, and the only setting in which they could get it cause problems was if the OOA diver approached from behind and to the left, and grabbed the reg from BEHIND and pulled it to the left. I think that's sufficiently unlikely that I don't worry about it.
 
Nope never used it - but thinking about it as its more streamlined. Thanks for the comment.
 
Long hose is for cave/wreck diving. It does have some benefits in other diving, but it would stik to octo setup for rec diving. Why complicate things, octo works well for rec diving.
 
Long hose is for cave/wreck diving. It does have some benefits in other diving, but it would stik to octo setup for rec diving. Why complicate things, octo works well for rec diving.

I dive the same long-hose configuration everywhere. Why "complicate things" by getting out tools and reconfiguring my regs when going from one environment to another? Why "complicate things" by diving a different configuration from one day to the next. Every skill is done by rote muscle-memory, why needlesly change things up? If the stuff hits the fan, I want to be able to do anything/everything by instinct and at the spinal cord level.

And, even if you never dive in overhead environments... on a recreational open water dive, if you ever needed to swim to an exit/ascent point while sharing air with someone, or do a safety stop with someone while sharing air, or share air in rough surface conditions while waiting/trying to get to a boat, I think you'd see which configuration actually "complicates things."
 
Long hose is for cave/wreck diving. It does have some benefits in other diving, but it would stik to octo setup for rec diving. Why complicate things, octo works well for rec diving.
It's true an octo works well enough for OW recreational diving, but it's the same as saying a Model T works well getting you to work. It's true, but that does not change the fact that there are far better tools for the job.

The long hose works far better, even in recreational diving.


Here's another way to look at it. I've donated gas three times in real world OOA scenarios and in all three cases it was on along hose. The ability for an OOA diver to have enough hose to not have to hold the reg in his/her mouth and to be able swim normally along side you during the ascent is priceless.

I've also offerred a reg proactively to low on gas divers to complete a swim to the planned exit/ascent point to a) ensure they'd have enough gas and b) ensure they would be able to to have ample gas to conduct an ascent, safety stop and BC inflation using their own gas.

In all of the above cases, the receiving diver was an instant convert to the long hose.

IMHO it in no way complicates anything. A long hose primary and bungeed secondary cleans up the hose routing on most divers, eliminating a hose looping out over the shoulder and greatly simplifying gas shares while accommodating the reality that a real world out of air diver is more than likely going to take your primary, so developing the concept of primary donation both provides a known to be working regulator to the OOA diver and acclimates you to the idea of going to your readily available and easy to find primary.

The only real change that needs to be considered is perhaps keeping your snorkel in a pocket rather than on the mask itself.

-----

I was certified to dive in 1985, and even then at that comparatively late date I still encountered divers who felt an octo was unnecessary and that buddy breathing worked just fine, and in fact buddy breathing was a required skill in my cert class in 1985. It's amazing in retrospect to realize that older/more experienced divers and instructors were willing to stay with an inferior configuration and practice just because it was familiar and that change, even good change, was by definition bad because it was change.

I fully expect that 20 years from now, some OW diver being trained today to use a short hose octo, will remark after 20 years of diving experience in a similar retrospective look at changes in training and practices how primitive the short hose octo was and express amazement that experienced divers and instructors could be so stuck in dogma and routine and be so resistant to change as to not accept the long hose primary and bungee back up as a vastly superior system. He'll also wonder and comment on why it took so long for it to be come the recreational OW standard. And of course 20 years from now, they'll be speaking about the short hose octo the way we all speak now about buddy breathing - an antiquated and difficult to perform practice that has long since been replaced.
 
@RJP: Every skill is done by muscle memory as you pointed out. Why change that routine with new equipment (cost) and new skills for basic rec diving? Using the right tool for the job should always be the case, but an octo setup for rec diving is not the wrong tool. Why needlessly change things up?

Secondly, sharing air while swimming to a exit point or doing a SS with octo is not difficult either. If the latter is an issue the long hose is not going to add any value as you already "suck" at basic skills. In short, if you can't exit effortlessly with a 40" the 6 foot hose is not going to help.


@DA Aquamaster: As stated above, if divers struggle with a 40" of octo then 6 feet is also going to an issue. An extra 3 feet is not magically fix skills. The OOA diver will just use the additional 3 feet before having the same issue as with octo.

We also learn to have contact and stay close together in OOA. But I fully expect this to change in this next 20 year too :wink:

FYI: There is nothing wrong with a long hose setup, I dive it a lot. But that does not make an octo setup the wrong tool for rec diving.
 
yanno, you don't have to deploy the entire long hose... you can leave it tucked away of the situation warrants it.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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