Check dives, private DMs, and local/shop policies

[markmantei]

But truly, after the first dive in which we still make very interesting, we have our divers on appropriate boats at appropriate dive sites. I think our reputation may speak for itself.

Having dove with Aldora the two trips I have made to Cozumel, there is a win/lose to the checkout policy, it is not so much the dive or the site, even the relatively safe sites that are chosen for the "checkout" dives are nice, but the issue is that the boat is a diverse group of first day divers. The negative, as a diver that dives regularly (as much as possible in a cold mountain climate!) and maintains their skills and gear, it can be frustrating to be stuck diving with the vacation diver who hasn't dove in years, and didn't bother to service his equipment prior to the dive fighting their way through it (and yes sometimes those are the "experienced" divers who have been certified for 15 or 20 years). Personally this has been aggravated by the fact that for both those trips my wife, for various reasons, did not dive on my first day, necessitating being on what I call the "short" boat 2 days in a row. Now, diving locally I quite enjoy helping out new divers who are struggling to improve their skills. On vacation, I get a limited number of dive days and diving with struggling divers can be frustrating. That said, I chose Aldora because of their dedication to safety. It is a pervasive attitude, from CO testing tanks, to utilizing nautilus lifelines when appropriate, Aldora has demonstrated that the safety of their divers is paramount and will put their money where their mouth is. Isn't that really what we expect here on SB when things go south and there is an incident? Dive shops that put the safety of their divers first, not a complicated concept, but one that sometimes doesn't get the attention it should because we (myself included) don't want to be burdened by sacrificing a dive with "less competent" divers, and don't want our experience and/or log books questioned. The unfortunate reality is that sometimes divers can talk a good game but can't back it up where it counts, in the drink. A checkout dive is really the only way for the dive op to know FOR SURE.

 

[boulderjohn]

In my experience, what is being called a "checkout dive" in the Aldora discussion is not the same thing as a typical checkout dive in many other locations, and people may be confused.

In what is typically called a checkout dive in many sites, the diver must do a short, shallow dive in a very benign location while a DM makes sure you can clear your mask, etc. Bob Bailey described a frustrating experience with such a requirement in Roatan. His transportation brought him to the operator too late in the day for the required checkout dive, and he missed a day of diving because they would not let him dive until he got into shallow water and showed he could clear his mask. That is not what we are talking about here.

Aldora has a number of boats, and they try to segregate them by ability. They usually do a pretty good job with that. They are not going to put you on one of the expert boats that go to the expert sites without knowing you are right for that. So what happens is you get on one of the regular boats going to one of the regular sites and you do a regular dive--just as several hundred other divers on the island will be doing that day. It will be a good dive at a good location. All boats (unless going to Barracuda Reef in the north or to the east side, both of which are advanced sites) do their surface intervals at the same place, at which time the dives and boats for the next day are pretty much set up. At that time you may find yourself scheduled for an advanced boat going to an advanced site the next day, assuming you have shown you have the ability for that.

In contrast....

This past September I did two days of diving in Cozumel with an operator that had one boat and thus could not do anything like that. On the first day, there was only one other diver, and he was very good. We had a great day of diving. The next day he and I were joined by another couple who supposedly had good experience. The first dive was planned for Columbia Deep, one of the more advanced sites on the island. During our initial descent it became painfully obvious that wife did not have the skills for the dive. Before going all the way down, we stopped in the sand so the DM could give her a few lessons. We then did a dive at the Columbia Deep location, but it was not what one would expect. We skipped the really good swim throughs and the excellent deep section as the DM literally held the woman's hand throughout most of the dive. He did a great job with her, and she learned a lot. My buddy and I were not so thrilled.

 

[Mike]

Granted I have only been to the island 3 times but not once has an operation staff even watched me walk into the water, let alone get in with me.

Yep. Understand. I think we already went over this.

See this :

Rules were obviously made to be broken, pointing out broken rules in Bonaire is fun, however I don't know what it would have to do with Cozumel. They would be free to adopt their own specifics to the guidelines/rules if they implemented a required check out dive, the details, enforcement etc would be up to them. Bonaire's enforcement and implementations are only an example of their enforcement and implementations, it doesn't mean another country is required to duplicate their weaknesses.

 

[diverrex]

Orientation: All SCUBA divers must attend an orientation with their dive operator (the center from which air tanks are obtained) before diving in the BNMP. The orientation consists of a ‘dry’ part and a ‘wet’ part. The ‘dry’ part is a briefing on the Bonaire National Marine Park rules. The ‘wet’ part of the orientation is the check out dive, which is always supervised by the dive operation providing air. Repeat divers are required to attend a dive orientation and perform a check out dive every time they are back on island.

Returning divers are supposed to repeat the process, if you skip it you're violating STINAPA's rules, you're not taking advantage of a loop hole. Even if it was a loophole, at least within the last year you'd have demonstrated you know how to dive, that's a better baseline than nothing at all.

Rules were obviously made to be broken, pointing out broken rules in Bonaire is fun, however I don't know what it would have to do with Cozumel. They would be free to adopt their own specifics to the guidelines/rules if they implemented a required check out dive, the details, enforcement etc would be up to them. Bonaire's enforcement and implementations are only an example of their enforcement and implementations, it doesn't mean another country is required to duplicate their weaknesses.

Well you were the one who brought up the Bonaire park dive orientation. True Cozumel could adopt or not any rules they want. I was just pointing out, since you brought it up, that the Bonaire dive orientation is not necessarily a soluton to discovering unsafe divers. You point out in the Bonaire rules the word "supervised". Note it doesn't say "watch underwater" or "dive with" or something similar. They are supervised, they are supervised from shore.

 

[Christi]

Thanks! I will never be diving with Aldora Divers! To brag about disregarding completely and utterly all log books (and i assume certifications and experience) is insulting to say the least! Seems kinda arrogant too... The entire diving certification universe is inadequate for your operation, and the only way to getting an advanced dive is to prove yourself on a paid dive on a shallow reef... Aldora...

Actually, this arrogant attitude and your misinterpretation of Dave's post is what is insulting. First of all, Dave did not say anything about forcing people to do a "shallow paid dive" - he said they select "non-threatening" dives for divers they are unfamiliar with so that they can place them on the appropriate boat for subsequent dive days. There is nothing unreasonable about this policy at all! Non threatening does not necessarily mean shallow or boring! For the record, Palancar Gardens is not a shallow reef - it is actually a beautiful dive that can be a wall dive or a dive traversing through beautiful swim throughs or it can be a shallow dive of 20 - 40 feet up at the top of the reef. This is a sight loved by divers of all skill levels.

Even if you were required to do a shallow dive on your first day, so what? Are you above any dive that is not an "advanced" or "deep" dive? THAT is what is insulting!

---------- Post added January 16th, 2013 at 11:25 AM ----------

The operator (Aldora) seems to indicate that no check out dive is necessary as long as you pay extra money to have a DM babysit a diver.

Actually, Dave said no such thing - again you blew his post way out of proportion.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Actually, this arrogant attitude and your misinterpretation of Dave's post is what is insulting. First of all, Dave did not say anything about forcing people to do a "shallow paid dive" - he said they select "non-threatening" dives for divers they are unfamiliar with. Non threatening does not necessarily mean shallow or boring! For the record, Palancar Gardens is not a shallow reef - it is actually a beautiful dive that can be a wall dive or a dive traversing through beautiful swim throughs or it can be a shallow dive of 20 - 40 feet up at the top of the reef. This is a sight loved by divers of all skill levels.

Even if you were required to do a shallow dive on your first day, so what? Are you above any dive that is not an "advanced" or "deep" dive? THAT is what is insulting!

Why not do what most places (not necessarily on Coz) do: a quick pool check out before you are allowed on a boat? Several times I have had to go in a pool, get neutral retrieve my reg, remove my mask.......then I am free to dive to my certification level. And I am not charged for the pool dive either. I too disagree with the logic of charging for a check-out dive when such a simple free solution exists. It does however mean less money in the pocket of the operator. Having said all of this, I respect the right of the shop to set their policy. I accept their policy and respect my right as a consumer to spend my money where I want (I am not saying I would not dive Aldora either......just stating facts and opinions).

 

[beaverdivers]

They are supervised, they are supervised from shore.

In the past, the Bonaire orientation dives were done w/ a DM in the water.

However my recent experiences, at Captain Don's and Buddy Dive, have been that the divers were justed directed to do an orientation dive.

We had a group so we assisted in the " Check Out Dive ". I believe having the DM involved was a better system. Please realize the primary reason for the orientation dive was mainly to protect Bonaire's reefs, not the divers. Yet if done properly, both the divers and the reef benefited.

I think most dive resorts offer ( require ) a check-out dive. Personally, I feel it is an excellent idea.

I know WAKATOBI requires a check-out dive to protect their pristine reefs and to qualify the diver.

 

[Christi]

Why not do what most places (not necessarily on Coz) do: a quick pool check out before you are allowed on a boat? Several times I have had to go in a pool, get neutral retrieve my reg, remove my mask.......then I am free to dive to my certification level. And I am not charged for the pool dive either. I too disagree with the logic of charging for a check-out dive when such a simple free solution exists. It does however mean less money in the pocket of the operator. Having said all of this, I respect the right of the shop to set their policy. I accept their policy and respect my right as a consumer to spend my money where I want (I am not saying I would not dive Aldora either......just stating facts and opinions).

For starters - pools are not readily available in Coz for every diver to do a pool check-out.

Secondly, a "quick pool checkout" gives absolutely no indication of how a diver will be in the open ocean at depth and on a drift dive - all dives in Cozumel are drift dives by the way. It also does not give the diver a true feel for the local divng conditions, proper weighting, etc.

And if someone is having a fit over having to do a regular dive on a regular site on their first day diving with an operation - they would go ballistic over having to do a pool check-out dive!

As has been said above - the "check-out" dive Dave referred to is a regular dive on a regular site - what operator or DM in their right mind would really take a diver that they didn't know to an advanced/expert site on their very first dive? I realize that the diving community has more than its share of ego's, we see it everyday - but some are just flat out arrogant.

 

[scubadada]

Granted I have only been to the island 3 times but not once has an operation staff even watched me walk into the water, let alone get in with me.

Same with me. This works for a weight and equipment check but nobody evaluates your diving skill, or lack thereof. My experience on Bonaire only dates back to 2004

 

[ScubaSteve]

And if someone is having a fit over having to do a regular dive on a regular site on their first day diving with an operation - they would go ballistic over having to do a pool check-out dive!

Absolutely untrue. I am OK doing anything you want in a pool. But if I think I am going to be taken to a chitty location for a simple check out dive.....yes I would get angry. And a pool tells you everything you need to know about a person's comfort in the water. Remember, each diver is able to produce a card that says they have successfully completed certain levels of training.....hence proven their skills in both confined water and open water. A person that received sub par training (which IMO is who you are trying to weed out, is going to be a CF in the pool as well as the open. Neither the simple drift dive nor the pool dive tells you how a person will react at depth while drifting along if the SHTF. You can show buoyancy control in both locations. If a person is comfortable with mask off swimming in a pool, it is very likely that they will be OK with it in the open.

If I was told that on our first day, we would be going to X and then to Y and that we would be observed on the first dive to assess ability, I would be fine. If I was told that my first paid dive was going to be a shallow benign site so that I could be observed, I would likely get upset and look to dive elsewhere. For me, if you make it sound like I am paying to do another basic OW checkout dive over a sandbar, then I would not be happy. Make it AND describe it as an actual dive and talk it up as the first dive of the day, then I am happy. With many people, it is all about presentation.