Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

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Your response while heartfelt exhibits the denial of someone close to the victim. We see it in almost every accident analysis thread family and friends declaring that the victim was too experienced for that (whatever that was) to happen. None of us are above making mistakes especially when TSHTF.
To paraphrase a term Too Good to Fail - fails keeps coming to mind.

To the best of my knowledge, she was using a smaller travel type wing.
Whatever the comprehensive details give us when we get them, (1) she was overweighted for the wing, and (2) did not dump weights in an emergency - both all too common in fatalities, just keeps happening!

I don't trust the idea of a "travel wing/BC." I want a strong BC wherever I dive. I use the same one in Cozumel that I used in Seattle.

Any indication or possibility of a drysuit flood?
Tank empty.
 
I've lost a good friend...
I was with Marcia in the morning the day she left Phuket for her dive trip, helping her with rebuilding some kit.
Seeing a post on Facebook led me here, and to be honest I'm stunned to say the least.

I wont comment on Marcia's dive skills, other than to say that we had a lot of the same thoughts on the subject, we had spoken several times saying how easy it is to become complacent when your a working Diver.

As much as I understand everyone wondering aloud as to what happened, I also understand what its like for friends and Family members when you do.
It's not a good situation at all, that's why as an instructor your told not to say anything to anyone except the proper authorities when an accident happens.
Something you said could be interpreted in a number of ways, usually negatively, or in a bad light, in any case what really happened is fairly hard to determine even with all the known facts.

Thank you to the people that have posted here that Marcia (Quero) was a good Inst / Diver / Person etc

She was a good friend, and we shared a lot of laughs in the past few years.
My sympathies go out to her Husband, her Children, and her Friends
I will miss her a lot.
 
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When I was undergoing my Fundies training, which I never completed, I recall the discussion of the balance rig discussion with Bob Sherwood revolved around how much more difficult it is to swim even just a slightly overweighted rig to the surface, than divers expect, and even if you could get the heavy rig to the surface, you would be exhausted, and it would be a horribly difficult job to maintain your buoyany on the surface if you had a flotation failure of any sort. As I say, this is not my field of expertise, and I was simply adding my impression of what it means to have a balanced rig.

In this situation, either on the swim up, or on the surface, one would ditch their weight. It's my impression that failure to ditch weight contributes commonly to bad outcomes in otherwise manageable situations
 
I would like to highlight this paragraph. Some of you may remember that our Kevin Carlisle (he's a youngster!) had an out-of-nowhere heart-attack back in March of this year. FreeWillie's comments are at least a reminder to get yourself checked out annually. This is a sport, and that needs you to have some reasonable fitness to deal well with it.
DAN has a section on fitness and diving. Ironically we only fill out medical questionnaires once as we certify, then have to do a fitness test as well, then never verify that we are still in shape to dive.

My recommendations for cardiac screening is a test called a Coronary Calcium Score. It is a screening CAT scan of the heart and looks for calcium deposits present in atherosclerosis. It is much better at detecting the earliest forms of heart disease and atherosclerosis. I use them most commonly when a patient has a high cholesterol and the question is if the patient would benefit from therapy. If the score comes back high they should be on a cholesterol rx, if they have a 0 score then I just watch with dietary recommendations since they don't have underlying heart disease.

For a standard treadmill stress test to be positive, even with the use of nuclear tracers or echocardiograms, the patient has to have a significant lesion. Usually on the order of 80-90% or more. So, as the patient starts to exercise on the treadmill the blockage has to be severe enough to start restricting blood flow in the heart to produce symptoms. What if you have a 35% blockage? You will have a normal stress test since that lesion won't be severe enough to limit flow. But, if a small lesion at 35% ruptures then you form a blood clot in the vessel and go to 100% blocked in minutes. Now you are having a heart attack. And, depending on the location, determines if you will survive or not. Keep in mind, 1 out of 3 patients die of their first heart attack in the field or don't survive the hospitalization.

As Jax has pointed out, get checked out with your doctor on an annual basis or on your physician's recommendations.
 
Another option on the surface to get more bouyant, but not one most would think about in an emergency unless previously considered and practiced is to break the seal on your drysuit neck and allow air in. Wouldn't this make the drysuit more buoyant than it likely is upon surfacing, after you've likely dumped all air on the ascent? I'm generally pretty shrink wrapped when I get out of the water.
This is something my husband has mentioned to me but I admit that I haven't tried it myself.
This all reminds me of my drysuit course. I was trying to use my old,worn out travel BC which had very little lift to begin with and also ended up having a leak. I realized that I was woefully unable to float my kit on the surface and that I was having to use my drysuit for a great deal of my lift. I purchased a new wing and it was also too small for comfort. ( I did purchase it with guidance from Tobin) This wing was able to float my kit but I had no room for error or emergencies. I was concerned that a fully flooded drysuit or needing to help somebody else, especially in a rough sea, would cause problems. I eventually got a New wing with 30 lbs of lift. This gives me a margin of safety and also allows me to use more weight, say if I decide that I need different undergarments, etc. I wasn't comfortable with the previous wing, in part because I had no margin to change my configuration or carry anything except what I originally checked my rig for balance in.

Another incident that happened to me about a year ago- I nearly drowned one time when my instructor and buddy were chatting on the surface. I was getting geared up and decided to cool off in a few feet of water on the edge of the lake. I fell in a deep hole, probably 6-8 feet deep and realized that I hadn't turned my air on. I learned real fast that my steel tank full of air was almost more than I could swim up with a thin wetsuit and OOA. ( I didn't even have any weight on as the steel tank heavy enough even with a jacket BC). I was able to swim it up but it was quite a struggle. If you haven't tried this with your rig, you really should. Please do it in a pool and of course, have your air on!
Really hit home that a balanced rig could save my life. I also realized how incredibly easy it is to drown in the blink of an eye in very shallow, benign conditions. Nobody even knew it happened. I would have drowned just a few feet from very competent help in shallow water with a full tank. The other thing that I learned is that you can't do much when you're out of air, stressed and underwater. It's very hard to kick back up to the surface with an empty set of lungs and no air in the BC if overweighted. I can imagine that orally inflating once you get to the surface from an OOA incident would be difficult. Of course, if your BC won't float you, orally inflating isn't enough anyway. Dumping weights with today's tech gear might also be tricky. Most of it is designed to stay in and be pretty tough to dump. I also learned that I really need to practice ditching my rig on the bottom,in the event of any type of emergency where my rig prevents me from swimming up. For instance, if I were to be entangled with something on my BC or tank and couldn't get myself unstuck, ditching my rig needs to be second nature.


---------- Post added October 11th, 2013 at 11:14 AM ----------

DAN has a section on fitness and diving. Ironically we only fill out medical questionnaires once as we certify, then have to do a fitness test as well, then never verify that we are still in shape to dive.

My recommendations for cardiac screening is a test called a Coronary Calcium Score. It is a screening CAT scan of the heart and looks for calcium deposits present in atherosclerosis. It is much better at detecting the earliest forms of heart disease and atherosclerosis. I use them most commonly when a patient has a high cholesterol and the question is if the patient would benefit from therapy. If the score comes back high they should be on a cholesterol rx, if they have a 0 score then I just watch with dietary recommendations since they don't have underlying heart disease.

For a standard treadmill stress test to be positive, even with the use of nuclear tracers or echocardiograms, the patient has to have a significant lesion. Usually on the order of 80-90% or more. So, as the patient starts to exercise on the treadmill the blockage has to be severe enough to start restricting blood flow in the heart to produce symptoms. What if you have a 35% blockage? You will have a normal stress test since that lesion won't be severe enough to limit flow. But, if a small lesion at 35% ruptures then you form a blood clot in the vessel and go to 100% blocked in minutes. Now you are having a heart attack. And, depending on the location, determines if you will survive or not. Keep in mind, 1 out of 3 patients die of their first heart attack in the field or don't survive the hospitalization.

As Jax has pointed out, get checked out with your doctor on an annual basis or on your physician's recommendations.
Thanks. My husband was found to have significant blockage of three vessels on cardiac CT despite normal everything. We found out that he has a hereditary lipoprotein defect that causes atherosclerosis, despite normal appearing cholesterol screens. He's in excellent shape and breezed through a stress test. I'm a huge believer in Cardiac Calcium scoring. It has brought to light a lot of cardiac issues in my patients which would have been missed with routine screening exams. It's not paid for by most insurance companies but it generally costs about $100 or less.
While I don't believe it caused Marcia's problem, I do believe cardiac health is something that all divers, especially those of us aged 45 and older, should be extra,extra vigilant about. Ask your doctor to order a Cardiac Calcium scoring CT. I believe some radiology places don't even require a doctor's order.
 
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Another option but not one most would think about in an emergency unless previously considered and practiced is to break the seal on your drysuit neck and allow air in. Wouldn't this make the drysuit more buoyant than it likely is upon surfacing, after you've likely dumped all air on the ascent? I'm generally pretty shrink wrapped when I get out of the water.
This is something my husband has mentioned to me but I admit that I haven't tried it myself.

When you are neck deep in water, the pressure exerted on your suit by the surrounding water is greater than the pressure of surface air, so there is nothing to force the air into the suit, if the neck seal is cracked.
 
Another option on the surface to get more bouyant, but not one most would think about in an emergency unless previously considered and practiced is to break the seal on your drysuit neck and allow air in. Wouldn't this make the drysuit more buoyant than it likely is upon surfacing, after you've likely dumped all air on the ascent? I'm generally pretty shrink wrapped when I get out of the water.
This is something my husband has mentioned to me but I admit that I haven't tried it myself..

When you are neck deep in water, the pressure exerted on your suit by the surrounding water is greater than the pressure of surface air, so there is nothing to force the air into the suit, if the neck seal is cracked.

That works when you're on land/boat to allow air back into the suit and get rid of that "shrink wrapped feeling."

As nimoh pointed out, if you're still in the water it won't help and it can actually force even more air out of the suit, depending on how you keep your exhaust valve set.

If you're in water deeper than you can stand, and already negative, breaking the seal could cause you to dump the remaining air in your suit, or allow water in, both of which would exacerbate the situation.
 
Your response while heartfelt exhibits the denial of someone close to the victim. We see it in almost every accident analysis thread family and friends declaring that the victim was too experienced for that (whatever that was) to happen. None of us are above making mistakes especially when TSHTF.

I do what some people would consider some very aggressive dives on my rebreather and someday it may kill me. That day will probably be a result of some mistake that I made or pushing the edge to far. I understand this as does my partner.

I tend to agree with Jax's analysis, and I was not close to Quero. I too do dives where the result of even relatively small mistakes will probably not be me having enough time to save myself, but that does not at all seem to be the case here. Rather, this was an extremely experienced diver in shallow open water with no deco obligation. Even if she suddenly found herself with no response from the reg when she went to pull her next breath after exhale, all evidence is that she was capable of doffing or cutting herself out of the rig and getting to the surface without much trouble.

If as Diver0001 says, the evidence simply does not suggest a medical or obvious external factor (sea nettle, entanglement), then I'm left to conclude that something else prevented her from executing what reason dictated and her training and experience more than allowed. Maybe the drysuit was too restrictive? And then there's the P word, which has the potential to kill any one of us in circumstances that leave all of the armchair QBs thinking how could this have happened on that dive?

 
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Another incident that happened to me about a year ago- I nearly drowned one time when my instructor and buddy were chatting on the surface. I was getting geared up and decided to cool off in a few feet of water on the edge of the lake. I fell in a deep hole, probably 6-8 feet deep and realized that I hadn't turned my air on. I learned real fast that my steel tank full of air was almost more than I could swim up with a thin wetsuit and OOA. ( I didn't even have any weight on as the steel tank heavy enough even with a jacket BC). I was able to swim it up but it was quite a struggle. If you haven't tried this with your rig, you really should. Please do it in a pool and of course, have your air on!
Really hit home that a balanced rig could save my life. I also realized how incredibly easy it is to drown in the blink of an eye in very shallow, benign conditions. Nobody even knew it happened. I would have drowned just a few feet from very competent help in shallow water with a full tank. The other thing that I learned is that you can't do much when you're out of air, stressed and underwater. It's very hard to kick back up to the surface with an empty set of lungs and no air in the BC if overweighted. I can imagine that orally inflating once you get to the surface from an OOA incident would be difficult. Of course, if your BC won't float you, orally inflating isn't enough anyway.Dumping weights with today's tech gear might also be tricky. Most of it is designed to stay in and be pretty tough to dump. I also learned that I really need to practice ditching my rig on the bottom,in the event of any type of emergency where my rig prevents me from swimming up. For instance, if I were to be entangled with something on my BC or tank and couldn't get myself unstuck, ditching my rig needs to be second nature.
Perhaps this design is the potential flaw. So you almost drowned because you had no weight to ditch? Was it all in your steel back plate & steel tank? This idea of having no ditchable weight works nicely for cave divers & divers in overhead environments. However, it doesn't seem to be a good idea for most divers. Does it? Do you really want to ditch your complete rig in an emergency including your B.C./ wing?
 
When you are neck deep in water, the pressure exerted on your suit by the surrounding water is greater than the pressure of surface air, so there is nothing to force the air into the suit, if the neck seal is cracked.
Thanks. Now you have me curious. I believe you but I'm going to have to try it in the pool. Will be awhile,though. I'm still on crutches from my last surgery.
 
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