ccx2
Contributor
Thanks,I'll take your word for it. Would this behavior be unnatural or abnormal.
LGBTQ Divers?
- Thread starter northatlanticdiver1
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wrybosome
Contributor
I'm not an animal behaviorist, but my understanding is that this is universal in the species. All bonobos engage with both sexes, several times a day. They use it as a way to defuse social tensions that lead to violence in the more familiar Jane Goodall type chimps. So it would appear to be entirely natural in bonobos. In people too, since homosexuality occurs at similar levels across all human cultures.
ccx2
Contributor
That's interesting,so that makes them bisexual right? Or does that make them homosexual or lesbian? I wonder if they are Transexual also.
I understand the point that Beth is making. When we were on our dive vacation last year, there were three guys on the boat that I think were gay. I figured it wasn't any of my business, so I didn't ask, and they never did or said anything publicly to confirm or refute it. While many might think that arrangement was just fine, the dichotomy is that I never felt any reason to hesitate showing affection to my wife. I'm not talking about groping, grinding, or tonsil-probing kissing. I'm talking simple, socially acceptable gestures such as a light touch, or an arm-around, or hand-holding, or the quick peck-type kiss.
My wife and I are affectionate, and without being overtly sexual in public, there would be little doubt to anyone who sees us, that we are a couple. From the bulk of this discussion, I think most of us here wouldn't care if a gay or lesbian couple were similarly affectionate in public, but it does raise the valid question - how do they know when they board the dive boat, whether the other divers are going to extend the same attitude towards a gay couple as they would towards a straight couple?
No one should have to wonder, when they go out for a dive, if someone on the trip is of a similar mind to Fred Phelps. Words and opinions may only have the power we give them, but being shunned or told you're hated, and that you're going to burn in hell, doesn't exactly fit in with most of our ideas for a wonderful dive trip.
We could change things around a bit, and perhaps create a bit more empathy for the situation. What if I traveled somewhere, boarded a dive boat, and another of the divers learned I was American, and spent quite a bit of the surface time assailing me over everything wrong with America? Telling me how evil America is, blaming me for everything perceived as wrong in the world, etc. Even if I dismiss their ranting as nothing but words, how pleasant are my surface intervals going to be with that kind of atmosphere? Should I feel I need to hide my nationality everywhere I go, just because Americans are disliked by some groups?
What if someone were an agnostic, and wound up on a boat full of gung-ho Christians? Should the agnostic need to pretend to be a gung-ho Christian, just to avoid being preached at every moment they're on the deck of the boat?
We can debate all we want about normal versus abnormal, or moral versus immoral, and for the most part, we're not even going to reach an agreement on the definition of terms or the standards by which to compare. The authority of the Bible, for example, is taken as absolute by some, and completely dismissed by others. As shown in this discussion, animal behavior in nature is taken as precedental by some, and not by others.
The real question in this topic has been, do we accept and tolerate other divers for who they are? Or do we expect them to hide who they are if we might be uncomfortable with that? If the gay or lesbian divers want to give each other a hug and kiss between dives, should they be as free to do so as straight divers? Or should they act like "just friends" for the sake of preventing a possible outburst from another diver on board?
They shouldn't need a specifically GLBT club to feel comfortable with who they are. What the rest of us should ask ourselves is, are we being a reason they still do?
My wife and I are affectionate, and without being overtly sexual in public, there would be little doubt to anyone who sees us, that we are a couple. From the bulk of this discussion, I think most of us here wouldn't care if a gay or lesbian couple were similarly affectionate in public, but it does raise the valid question - how do they know when they board the dive boat, whether the other divers are going to extend the same attitude towards a gay couple as they would towards a straight couple?
No one should have to wonder, when they go out for a dive, if someone on the trip is of a similar mind to Fred Phelps. Words and opinions may only have the power we give them, but being shunned or told you're hated, and that you're going to burn in hell, doesn't exactly fit in with most of our ideas for a wonderful dive trip.
We could change things around a bit, and perhaps create a bit more empathy for the situation. What if I traveled somewhere, boarded a dive boat, and another of the divers learned I was American, and spent quite a bit of the surface time assailing me over everything wrong with America? Telling me how evil America is, blaming me for everything perceived as wrong in the world, etc. Even if I dismiss their ranting as nothing but words, how pleasant are my surface intervals going to be with that kind of atmosphere? Should I feel I need to hide my nationality everywhere I go, just because Americans are disliked by some groups?
What if someone were an agnostic, and wound up on a boat full of gung-ho Christians? Should the agnostic need to pretend to be a gung-ho Christian, just to avoid being preached at every moment they're on the deck of the boat?
We can debate all we want about normal versus abnormal, or moral versus immoral, and for the most part, we're not even going to reach an agreement on the definition of terms or the standards by which to compare. The authority of the Bible, for example, is taken as absolute by some, and completely dismissed by others. As shown in this discussion, animal behavior in nature is taken as precedental by some, and not by others.
The real question in this topic has been, do we accept and tolerate other divers for who they are? Or do we expect them to hide who they are if we might be uncomfortable with that? If the gay or lesbian divers want to give each other a hug and kiss between dives, should they be as free to do so as straight divers? Or should they act like "just friends" for the sake of preventing a possible outburst from another diver on board?
They shouldn't need a specifically GLBT club to feel comfortable with who they are. What the rest of us should ask ourselves is, are we being a reason they still do?
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billt4sf
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My wife and I recently joined a LGBT dive group and it was one of the best things we have ever done.
The people are so nice to us! On our first trip, they were so helpful getting us situated in the boat, helpful with our diving, and topside, were very friendly to us. We were a bit nervous, this being our first time on a dive boat in cold water, and our first time being with a "gay group". Not to worry, we have made some great new dive buddies and some new friends. It was an interesting experience being in a group where *we* were the minority! It was interesting and fun to meet people of various gay persuasions and we quickly got to the understanding that it just didn't matter -- we enjoy their company. A very enlivening experience for us, we have enjoyed the group immensely.
A shout-out to any NCRD members that may be reading this -- thanks for making us feel so special!
- Bill & Emily
The people are so nice to us! On our first trip, they were so helpful getting us situated in the boat, helpful with our diving, and topside, were very friendly to us. We were a bit nervous, this being our first time on a dive boat in cold water, and our first time being with a "gay group". Not to worry, we have made some great new dive buddies and some new friends. It was an interesting experience being in a group where *we* were the minority! It was interesting and fun to meet people of various gay persuasions and we quickly got to the understanding that it just didn't matter -- we enjoy their company. A very enlivening experience for us, we have enjoyed the group immensely.
A shout-out to any NCRD members that may be reading this -- thanks for making us feel so special!
- Bill & Emily
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